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View Diary: On the false equivalence between "Obama rox" and "Obama sux" (295 comments)

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  •  Just because you're lazy doesn't mean it's a crock (20+ / 0-)

    Obama rox, Obama sux is a lazy conflation by people who don't want to look into policy and would have never survived high school debate class.

    It's also about qualification. The diarists who are lazy and do not qualify anything they write are given equal deference here by the so called mosderator/non moderator/whatevers here and that's why I don't relaly write here anymore among other reasons. It makes writing well researched diaries not really worth it when some who prefer this kind of lazy comparison get to spout off terms like "It's only Obama Sux" instead of pointing out that Obama's NSA is like Bush's as well as the legislation he signs.

    So either find a real criticism, you and all your friends, are admit you're too lazy to. And if you're proud of being lazy, whatever. Rock on, I guess.

    Those who deflect debates about the issues with complaints about tone usually have a lot to atone for.

    by priceman on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 04:40:06 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  So as you saying (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sviscusi, Yasuragi

      that so called 'Obama Rox diarists' are 'lazy' and Markos gives equal deferrence to them as opposed to 'Obama Sux diarists' who are well researched?

      Um... okay....

      •  Not all of them. There is compelling agit prop (7+ / 0-)

        spouting out creative revisionist history like the right does and did in 2004 while pretending the 4th amendment isn't important while justifying everything the President supports first before analysis, but most are lazy and light on the substance. That seems to be encouraged and allowed here; the president's sycophants are allowed to deny facts even if they are spelled out and are then allowed to troll diarists who put in a lot of work. When called on this, we have moderators that get involves and then say they are not moderators once this disparity is called out which makes it convenient, yet very transparent, and subverts the value of participating at this site much.

        The research shows your Obama sux dynamic to be false, but since besides a few compelling agit prop pieces here and there, the Obama Rox contingent lives up to the description and doesn't involve a lot of research besides the so called "achievement" lists put out by OFA campaign staffers, people can be lazy with impunity and "learn" to stop worrying and love the President while being counted as just as important as people who actually do research (derisively called cut and paste by people who are too lazy to do it) to back up their points. I don't know why you're upset about me pointing this out. You've won.

        It wouldn't be so obvious if say, you didn't look at this site in 2004 regarding the NSA, and now that Obama is in charge many, like half of this site, have little to no problem with it. And that;'s called qualifying what I am saying. I took the time to spell out the relevant backing of this comment, with relevant facts to back up my POV.

        Whether that upsets you and your friends has no bearing on me. It is what it is, that is, unless there is a relevant qualification besides another emotional reaction. So there's your answer, and I imagine it will upset you but you should share it with someone else; it really bores me these days as it is the same thing your clique will say in unison. I get tired of reruns.

        Those who deflect debates about the issues with complaints about tone usually have a lot to atone for.

        by priceman on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 09:32:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well here's the thing priceman. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Yasuragi, Hammerhand

          I will agree with you that some will make 'trollish' comments in well thought out diaries.  It has happened to you and others who have poured your hearts into putting them together.  Yet I've seen the same in diaries discussing favorable policies that the Administration is instituting as well.  

          Now as to your example about the NSA, I don't recall reading any comments from folk who have said that they didn't care that it was happening under Obama, but then again, I have generally stayed out of the metawar diaries on the whole NSA/Greenwald/Snowden affair.  I have a definite position as to whether I believe that Snowden is a whistleblower or hero or not (and I don't for both, for the record -- I don't find him to be a traitor either).  That doesn't mean that I personally care for the Obama Administration's continuance of holding water for the NSA.  But I'm not surprised that by that position either, given the dubious history of spying and lying about it in this country alone.

          The up shot here is that this whole thing has (should have) highlighted the problems with instituting the Patriot Act that legalizes all this spying in the first place.

          As to whether it 'upsets' me, at best this is projection on your part and counterproductive, so let's set aside the personal stuff, okay?  

          The real point here is that folk should be able to voice their disagreements without baiting folk into a useless internet shouting match and disagreeing -- even if it's to simply state that they disagree, should not be viewed as wholesale trollish behavior.

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