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View Diary: On the false equivalence between "Obama rox" and "Obama sux" (295 comments)

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  •  You always write such intellectual diaries. (9+ / 0-)

    They always enlighten and give me food for thought.

     I agree the problem is as you presented.   I think the frustration in the sux crowd is that they have no place else to go - at least that's what we've always been told.

    The roxers are the easiest to handle.  As you say, some people are just not going to be part of the thought collective -- they're not ready yet.  

    The harder to accept is that there are no sux, and that the Left possesses nothing even remotely approaching the sophistication, which explains why it gets so repeatedly outfoxed.

    I don't know about the roxer's, but if I was one of them, I would have been highly offended by MBNYC's diary.   I know it meant well, but I found it condescending.  It sounded like exacerbated parents explaining slowly for the tenth time:  I'm sorry there's no Santa Claus, roxer;  but if you'll just listen, I'll tell you how helpful knowing this can be.  

    So what I take away from this is that there is no organized opposition to the neoliberals and probably won't be in our life time.  I knew it, but I didn't want to believe that Santa was dead too.

     Asking with little to no hope, am I wrong?

    What we need is a Democrat in the White House. Warren 2016

    by dkmich on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 05:19:15 PM PDT

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    •  Left gets outgunned more than it gets outfoxed (10+ / 0-)

      I have exerted myself in more futile presidential campaigns (Ted K in '80, Mondale in '84, Simon and then Jackson in '88, Harkin and then Brown in '92, Bradley in '00, Dean in '04) than most anyone here.  I started out w/ Edwards in '08 before moving to Obama as the alternative to more Turd Way DLC "realism."  I didn't realize then that the Turd Way had already bought both horses in that "race."

      Given the trial and error nature of any presidential campaign, one can argue that all of my candidates cited above contributed mightily to their own ultimate demise.  I still, for example, recall Ted K stumbling through the Roger Mudd interview on the eve of his announcement in fall '79.  W/ most of these candidates (esp. since the DLC takeover in late 80's), however, it really didn't matter what they did--they weren't getting nominated anyhow.  The party mavens were no more going to let Dean get nominated than they were going to sign oaths in blood to never take lobbying jobs.

      While I agree w/ your tag line, even if Warren does decide to run, her odds of getting nominated are marginally better than yours or mine are.  Frank Rich does as good of a job as anyone of explaining why:

      But this syndrome didn’t start with the Obama administration and won’t end with it. Perhaps the more useful question to ask is when and why this change came over Washington’s entire Democratic hierarchy. There have always been lobbyists in both parties, of course, and there have always been powerful Democratic influence peddlers to match their Republican counterparts. Clark Clifford, Robert Strauss, and Vernon Jordan—the respective pals of Truman, LBJ, and Bill Clinton—are among the most legendary Washington operators of the post–World War II era. But what once was an unsavory appendix to the legislative process has scaled up over the past three decades to become a dominant, if not the dominant, Washington private industry. And while some former office holders, senators and members of Congress included, have always joined the lobbying ranks, lobbying and its adjuncts have now become the career havens of choice for Establishment Democrats with government résumés, not just for Republicans traditionally aligned with corporate interests. There’s more status than shame in joining this gold rush—as we see in This Town—and many of the Democratic practitioners barely pay lip service to the ideal of siding with working- and middle-class Americans against the plutocrats of finance and industry. They are too busy rushing to partner with Republicans in servicing the very same corporate accounts.
      I already expect to have plenty of free time on my hands come 2016.

      Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

      by RFK Lives on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 07:02:31 PM PDT

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