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View Diary: A different world had it been President Gore (230 comments)

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  •  This charge (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, Subterranean, Vetwife

    is wrong: " the decision not to go for a recount of the entire state"
    Recounts were sought in counties where Democrats had a majority on the board of canvassers.  At the same time Gore sued in State court to get a wider recount.

    There was no strategy Gore could have pursued that he did not post election - despite what Michael Moore says.
    The butterfly ballot in West Palm cost about 5K in votes - but people miss that there were 450,000 votes in Palm Beach - so the butterfly ballot confused a pretty small percentage.

    It all mattered.  It was a perfect storm.  Florida was incredibly close in 2000 - the margin was less then 300 in either direction out of 5 million cast.

    •  I think you got it backwards (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sidnora

      From Wiki:

      The media reported the results of the study during the week after November 12, 2001. The results of the study showed that had the limited county by county recounts requested by the Gore team been completed, Bush would still have been the winner of the election. However, the study also showed that the result of a statewide recount of all disputed ballots could have been different. The study was unable to review the ballots in Broward and Volusia that were counted as legal votes during the manual recounts thus analysis included those figures that were obtained using very loose standards in its calculations. Since these recounts resulted in a sizable net gain for Gore (665 net Gore votes) they have no bearing on the assessment that Bush would likely have won the recounts requested by Gore and ordered by the Florida Supreme Court. They do, however, play a major role in the assessment that Gore could have won a recount of the entire state if overvotes were taken into account.
      I was in law school at the time and part of my Federal Jurisdiction class was studying the lawsuits revolving around the Florida recounts.

      I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

      by ccyd on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 08:57:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Vetwife

        Wikipedia - really.

        I have been part of the legal protection team here for years.

        Requests were only made to Democratic counties because none of the SOE's in the Republican counties were going to agree to it.  The decision to do hand counts were a decision at the COUNTY level.  

        This fact seems beyond those outside of the state.  In the subsequent law suit the Gore people at the Florida Supreme Court asked for a statewide hand count.  

        •  Do you have the link to the court papers? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Vetwife

          I'd like to read them, because the study I did at the time doesn't jibe with what you are saying.  Moreover, the WIKI article supports my position.  You raise good points, though, and I would like to know whether I am right or wrong.

          I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

          by ccyd on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 02:10:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I told you in the diary history would (0+ / 0-)

            rewrite and it looks like it has already started with wikepedia.    I was in Ga but remember it being told both ways.   Statewide and just the ones with the Dem voters but in Recount... they told it another way.. I think the problem came when a judge ruled only those counties.

            We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

            by Vetwife on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 05:14:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  This is a great diary (tipped & rec'd) (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Vetwife

              I appreciate that you wrote it and I whole-heartedly agree with many of your thoughts about what things would have been if only Gore had taken the office (I still believe that he actually won Florida).

              I have not yet seen any evidence that refutes what I said about the Gore campaign seeking only to recount a few Democratic strongholds instead of the entire state.  If there is, then I'm all ears.  That's why I asked for the link to the court papers.  That is not something that can be rewritten.  It's a fact that is knowable.  I am pretty sure I know the fact, but there is a possibility I could be wrong.  If I am going to change my mind, I will need a reason to do so, which can only come from hard evidence.

              I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

              by ccyd on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 06:16:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Dude (0+ / 0-)

            Kathleen Harris was the secretary of state in Florida.  She was not going to agree to a hand recount, and it was reasonably unclear if she had the authority to do so anyway.

            There is no there there.  Frankly the "he didn't ask for a statewide recount" is really a right wing talking point.  Who would the request be made to?

            Gore went to the counties that had Dem Soe's (Supervisor of Elections).  In Hillsborough the SOE made clear she would NOT do a hand recount.  In fact, it really wasn't a matter of Gore asking for it, because the SOE could decide to move forward on their own. Gore had no legal authority to compel anyone to do a recount.

            The lawsuit came after Dem SOE's started their hand recount, and the ruling applied to the counties doing the recount.  THEN that was appealed, and the Fla state supreme court ordered a statewide recount.

            Keep in mind, the hand recounts took place AFTER the state mandated recount.  In fact, some GOP SOE's never even complied with the state requirement to the first recount.  

            What is poorly understood outside of Florida is that Florida elections are run by County SOE's, though this has changed somewhat since 2000.

            What has happened here is that the right made up a story that fit the need for the Nader people to feel as though they didn't matter in the end.  

            The "didn't ask for a statewide recount" is a myth born of ignorance.

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