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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: The futility of 'just the facts' climate science (87 comments)

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  •  I believe David Roberts is one of the.... (11+ / 0-)

    ...smartest analysts about strategy and tactics about climate change around.

    As for showing images, they reach some people, so yes, show them. But others? They ridicule photos, charts, whatever. They buy into the view that these are all a hoax.

    The problem right now is two-fold: not just deniers but also delayers, with many of the latter category supposedly on our side. Getting these delayers to move off the dime ought to be, must be, a major priority for the climate change movement. They don't need to see photos.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 09:34:59 PM PDT

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    •  David Roberts does an excellent job (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Meteor Blades, Eric Nelson

      of sounding the alarm for those you refer to as delayers. Alarm is indeed the word, so I'm not sure they really get it.
      Here's the oldie but goodie - too long for most; 15 minutes and change:

    •  I believe that neither deniers nor delayers (0+ / 0-)

      are actually relevant any more, because the political fight has fallen so far behind the technology and the economics. For example, Goldman Sachs, nobody's idea of a bunch of Leftie Environmentalists, is telling everybody who will listen not to invest in coal for power generation or export. Oil is also too expensive. That leaves renewables and natural gas for the next few years, until we build out the renewables fully. At the present growth rate, something better than 30% annually, the combination of wind, solar PV, solar thermal (with storage), hydro, and biofuels will be able to handle all of our energy needs before 2030.

      Considering the damage that global warming is doing and will continue to do even after we give up fossil carbon fuels, that is too long. Considering the alternative, it's an astonishing achievement.

      Our problem is not that the glass is half empty or half full, but that the 1% claims that it is their glass.

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 11:49:48 PM PDT

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      •  I'm stealing that last line!! (0+ / 0-)

        for a sig.

        Whether they are relevant or not, the right way to deal with 'em is to show the pictures, STATE THE CONCLUSION and stop talking.

        The more you argue details and minutia the more people tune out.

        "Our problem is not that the glass is half empty or half full, but that the 1% claims that it is their glass." ---Stolen from a post on Daily Kos

        by jestbill on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 08:02:34 AM PDT

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    •  as for the topic of that particular article (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Meteor Blades

      (and this does dovetail with your comment...)

      I hadn't read Tamsin Edwards' stuff until it was mentioned on RealClimate recently. I think she is confusing climate scientists' credibility with being able to avoid attacks. Of course most people want the science to be honest, not "agenda-driven." But most people don't expect climate scientists to be neutral about climate catastrophe, or indifferent about how it might be prevented. Talking about policy probably will provoke some attacks, but it also conveys seriousness. It communicates the basic meaning of the science much more clearly, to many people, than if the question "what should we do?" is moved out of bounds. Dancing around the topic of why one's research matters actually undermines credibility.

      Silence about policy implications suits delayers just fine. It doesn't serve the public.

      Now, it is conceivable that Edwards' approach is best for her. (I haven't seen her in action.) But as an ethical imperative for climate scientists in general, it is really misguided.

      "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

      by HudsonValleyMark on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 06:35:30 AM PDT

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