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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: The futility of 'just the facts' climate science (87 comments)

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  •  Saw a right-wing post on Climate Change a while (5+ / 0-)

    back. Guy made sense to me. Paraphrased: Look, I'm never going to believe in human-caused global warming, I don't care what you say. But I can see pollution. I know it's bad. Why not talk to me about pollution?"

    Which I thought pointed to a very real problem of the Left; one which has more to do with social relations, than political activism. A kind of demand that everyone have the same feeling and overall social goals, which I always think of (no offense meant to anyone) as "I-went-to-college-leftism."

    To illustrate: I was at the new anti-nuke groups 1st meeting. It was called by an core group of young white people, maybe 5 or 6, and we had maybe 60-70 people show up. Being the one's who called the meeting, naturally they started proceedings.

    It wasn't long before they had us each expressing our feelings about this or that nuance, exploring the permutations, and resolving the differences, etc.

    Now, I'd say about 50 of the people in that meeting were just householders with families. Attentive people who had work to go to the next day. Teachers, typesetters, handy-men, what not.

    Those people were there to keep the plant from opening. They had limited time. These people who got things done all the time, whether they worked with people they hated or loved; whether they were here or there on any issues.

    They had lived long enough and had long ago accepted "different strokes for different folks." All they gave a shit about was killing the damned plant. Not finding a loving and supportive community; not exploring new means governance; or installing new cultural norms learned from Indonesians and the Iroquis.

    So we ended up voted whether we'd endorse a flyer by -- <A social identity group> for Peace and against Nuclear Power.

    Two hours, it's 10 pm now, as we each went in a circle and "expressed our feelings." We couldn't vote, said the accepted moderators. Although the end turned out to be whatever-to-zero in favor.

    By the third meeting they had 18 people there.

    Dylan had a line about the Left scene he left to play rock and roll: "Social clubs in drag disguise."

    The conservative guy was right. If we had pushed "pollution" among certain communities, instead of insisting they buy the other view, we'd have been moving along a lot faster. And both to the same effect.

    One of the unheralded victories of environmentalists is everyone now understands pollution is bad.


    Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

    by Jim P on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 09:45:34 PM PDT

    •  Stop calling rightwing zealots conservative. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jeff Y, 714day, Dogs are fuzzy

      The cited poster who at least cares about pollution, though his mind is closed to science, might be an actual conservative.

      "conservative: favoring traditional views and values, tending to oppose change...traditional or restrained in style"- American Heritage Dictionary.

      But the so-called conservative GOP base is reckless and radical. They want to overthrow the government as it evolved from the Progressive Era forward, by any means necessary. They are the direct heirs of the John Birch Society, of which Fred Krupp, the actual father of the Koch brothers, was a founder and principal funder.

      Hofstader's classic essay,The Paranoid Style in American Politics is useful for understanding what we are up against, but Dave Roberts' essay cited by MB pretty well nails it.

       

      There's no such thing as a free market!

      by Albanius on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 10:23:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  agreed. Let's call actual conservatives what they (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eric Nelson, JeffW

        really are: ignorant, reactionary f*ckwits, favoring power over equity. Rather than Hofstader, it would be better to consult:

        Adorno, T. W., Frenkel-Brunswik, E., Levinson, D.J., Sanford, R. N. (1950). The Authoritarian Personality

        Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

        by annieli on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 10:29:50 PM PDT

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      •  He called himself that. I'm not interested in (0+ / 0-)

        knee-jerk linguistic purity myself.

        You missed the whole fucking point of the post, although you did demonstrate the type of mentality I highlighted as being a reason we're way behind where we could be in regards to global warming.

        And you don't know shit about the guy I was referencing.

        Ever hear of "semantic reaction?" It's neither, healthy, wise, nor mature.


        Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

        by Jim P on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 02:16:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  yeah (0+ / 0-)

      Not to overstate the point -- I don't think bad tactics are to blame for much of the difficulty. But sometimes people do get preoccupied with transcending anthropocentrism, or (as in your anecdote) with process values of "respect" that many participants may not actually experience as respectful. Coalition is hard, and almost every meeting is a coalition meeting. It's hard to learn about that without actually having meetings, so kudos to the core group for that.

      "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

      by HudsonValleyMark on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 06:58:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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