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  •  Talk about punishing criminal activity (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coquiero

    after the fact, Talk about punishing criminal activity before the fact? Why am I still taking my shoes off at the airport?  If I want to go to a pro football game anywhere in the country now I have to bring in personal items in a clear plastic bag.  These are knee-jerk reactions after the crime was committed.   I think this a reaction to the Boston marathon bombings, the underwear bomber and so on. They are checking for bombs, knives, Exacto knives, and  guns.  

    How about being proactive?  The second amendment does not address automatic weapons.  It addresses a well regulated militia.   Well regulated is in the second amendment.

    I do not understand how gun rights people use the second amendment which was written so many years ago.  This is a different world, and I don’t understand how background checks and registering is such an onerous thing.  I have to register my car, dog, cars and even my cats.  

    Page down, please.  Puter is  not behaving                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The                                                                                                                              
    second amendment gave you some rights.  

    I still like you a lot, KV.  You are always civil,  I look forward to sparring with you, but we will rarely agree.

    Best,
    Piren

    A day without sunshine is like, you know, night. ....Steve Martin

    by Piren on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:36:20 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Nope, you have it wrong. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      theatre goon, KVoimakas, gerrilea

      1.  The only way to punish criminal activity is, usually, after the fact.  Unless you catch someone red-handed in planning or attempting to execute a criminal act.  Good luck with that.  Bureau of Pre-Crime, anyone?

      2.  A sports stadium is usually private property, or run by a private company, Constitutional Rights do not always apply there.  I think they are over-reacting, but I also don't go to those places, if I can at all avoid it.  (Full disclosure, I've worked security at a major University sports complex on occasion here in Tucson.)

      3.  The Second addresses "arms" of which 'automatic weapons' are a subset.  It barely mentions "a well regulated militia", but grammatically the focus and intent is on "the right of the people".  "Well regulated" is used in reference to the militia, not "the right of the people".

      4.  Most of the other Amendments were also "written so many years ago".  And yet all of them are still applicable today.  Until Amended via Article V of the Constitution, they still apply just as they always have.

      5.  Registration of all the things you mention has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with a revenue stream for the government.  

      6.  None of the Amendments "give" us any Rights.  They recognize pre-existing Rights and lay out limitations on the government.

      Your hate-mail will be graded.

      by PavePusher on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 04:13:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Has there been a mass shooting at a football (3+ / 0-)

      game? A concert?

      Concert goers have been screened for contraband for 2 decades (at least). Has there been a mass shooting at a Concert?

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 04:15:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The law was settled long before we were born. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PavePusher, Tom Seaview
      2. United States v. Cruikshank (1875)

          6. The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendments means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government.

      You must be clear on this point: The Constitution Of The United States grants limited authorities to our created government, it does not grant me a damn thing.  I will still exist with unalienable rights even if our government ends tomorrow.  Our created government cannot grant me anything.  It must ensure my/our Equity Under Law.  It must protect the specific enumerated individual rights contained within the Bill Of Rights, not abrogate them.

      This point however does not stop ANY State from trying to do so.

      This argument has been addressed and settled for decades:

      The second amendment does not address automatic weapons.  It addresses a well regulated militia.   Well regulated is in the second amendment.
      The Heller Decision:
       Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment . We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997) , and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001) , the Second Amendment extends, prima facie,to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.
      As for all the machinations of our New American Police State that you mentioned, immaterial to this discussion, really.

      Owning a car is a privilege, just ask any person in our government.  And traveling, nope, we have no inherent right to travel....Ughhhhh!!!

      Cats, not sure about that one, but even in my most authoritarian State of New York, I do not have to register my cats.  Dogs must be licensed, why??? Because some other authoritarians thought up a good way to keep taxing us for the State's financial benefit and claiming it's for "public health".  They could have very easily mandated rabies shots or whatever and then fined people that were found not to have proof they did so.  The "licensing thingy" is because they assume guilt here in New York.

      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

      by gerrilea on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 04:55:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you believe that UBC, licensing & registration (3+ / 0-)

        are infringements under the 2A?

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 05:14:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, but I do understand the thought of not (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PavePusher, Tom Seaview, Piren

          allowing convicted violent felons from owning an arsenal of toys.

          Personally, I'd rather we didn't created those violent felons in the first place and focused our monies and efforts in helping every American create their very own dream.  More specifically, giving them the tools necessary for success in these United States.

          Perpetual poverty and "voluntary" servitude to Amerika, Inc...does no one any good.  It destroys the human spirit and pits man against man.  It's a vicious self-destroying economic system doomed to collapse.

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 05:34:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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