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  •  But anyway, you cannot dispute the fact that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LilithGardener

    America's founding documents are laced with the philosophy of the New Testament which encapsulated Western ethical philosophy, and even the Founders were atheists of the enlightenment (Jefferson, Franklin, Madison) who used those ethical ideals as the basis for both the Declaration and the Constitution, among other founding writings.

    To abandon the ethical underpinnings of democracy in America in favor of your position on guns is a radical change in how we view one another, our understanding of civil society, the greater good, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty is not license to do what you want. It is a balance of MY rights to be free to move about without concern, my pursuit of happiness not to worry about my school being shot up every week, and my liberty to make sure criminals and sociopaths are not armed for the safety of my family.

    You are proposing a mighty change, in line with the NRA's advocacy of values Post WW2,  in our understood ethical values, KV, I hope you know that, by taking the positions you take. If we accept your new ethical values, I fear we must discard civil democaracy in favor of Roman style society; get what you can, keep it, live fast and be prepared to die young with no hope of an afterlife. Thats not a world I will work to advance. Too much Native American in me, I am afraid. Nez Perce and Fox.

    Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

    by OregonOak on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 11:53:09 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  We don't have civil democracy (0+ / 0-)

      right fucking now.

      I think that's part of the problem.
      ---

      Liberty is not license to do what you want. It is a balance of MY rights to be free to move about without concern, my pursuit of happiness not to worry about my school being shot up every week, and my liberty to make sure criminals and sociopaths are not armed for the safety of my family.
      I'm not saying liberty is the license to do what you want. Liberty is do what you want until your fist meats the end of the other persons nose. Then it's an infringement upon his liberty. Did you ever show in my suggestions diary? Look, there are ways to cut back on violent crime. Ways to cut back on suicides. And they don't infringe upon my right to keep and bear arms.

      Oh, and the Dec. of Independence isn't one of our governing documents.

      ---

      Here's an EVD quote for you:

      The Constitution of the United States guarantees to you the right to bear arms…You have the unquestioned right, under the law, to defend your life and protect the sanctity of your fireside. Failing in either, you are a coward and a craven and undeserving of the name of man. -Eugene V. Debs-
      Passivism in the face of violence is not the American way. (Going back a comment.)

      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 12:07:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  To Lincoln, it was a Governing Principle.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener

        But lets not get caught up in minutiae.

        Well unless people can accept that what made us the most trusted country in the world, the go-to nation, the model of stability and decency was our ethical concern based on New Testament Ethics, which encapsulated Western Values from both Old and New Testament.

        That does NOT mean we have to be religious, but it does mean we have to acknowledge our roots as an ethical society. Unrestricted military gun ownership is a fly in that ointment, and has been since the founding, as it was a concession to slaveholders in exchange for their joining the Union. When slavery was outlawed, there was good reason to change the interpretation of the Second Amendment, but the Southern States still regarded gun "rights" as important to order in a racist society.

        We can now safely interpret the Second Amendment as written. The question of slavery is settled. We can be safer with battlefield weapons reserved for the military, and not salted throughout the population. The ownership of guns is not an individual right, as Scalia concedes in Heller. It does exist within the well-regulated militia part of the amendment, as Ginsburg and Stevens wrote. This is not settled law. We still have time to correct the last remaining vestige of America's Original Sin; the enslavement of people for profit, and the intimidation of fellow citizens by means of using guns.  

        Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

        by OregonOak on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 02:07:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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