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View Diary: NSA/Snowden Flame Wars-Solved! (132 comments)

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  •  many of us (2+ / 0-)
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    3goldens, I love OCD

    hope that congress will deal with this, and there is pending legislation.

    i see plenty of substantive nsa discussion, but some people would much rather talk about greenwald or snowden. i've always said they are mostly irrelevant to the real story, although i will now say that the administration's abusive efforts to catch them is becoming a big part of the story- from forcing down bolivia's president's plane, to detaining greenwald's partner.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:02:07 PM PDT

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    •  Here's the thing, the US didn't refuse (0+ / 0-)

      landing rights nor did US agents hold Miranda.  How is it we have so much influence if other countries are shocked and appalled by our surveillance apparatus?  The key points I take away from both incidents is that every government is spending big bucks on the GWOT, for whatever reasons they formulate- it could be Islamist states paranoid about US influences and threats, western nations that have suffered terror attacks and are determined to stop them, emerging nations tracking internal and external threats.  China and the former USSR are extremely repressive countries trying to control both.  

      These are larger issues we don't even get close to discussing.  We have enough food to end world hunger, enough medicine to save millions of lives, enough money to educate every citizen, enough money and resources to house and provide for every human being, and to stop destroying every non-human species.  Why aren't we building food replicators?  Why aren't we building schools and neighborhoods and hospitals?  Why aren't we promoting ZPG?  Why don't we propagandize for peace, tolerance, an understanding that this is one biosphere we all depend on, and we stand or fall together?  

      1000 greedy plutocrats, 100,000 violent religious zealots are nothing to worry about if a few billion committed humans decide we're the power.  

      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

      by I love OCD on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 04:32:26 PM PDT

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      •  the right wing governments (0+ / 0-)

        of spain and britain have not pretended to be shocked or appalled. their liberal oppositions have. the idea that the u.s. was no more than a passive observer defies credulity. spain has even admitted to having been told snowden was on the plane. wonder how that happened.

        and a big part of the reason we're not helping humanity anywhere close to the level we could is because we are too busy, and spending too much of our national wealth, consolidating power and wealth among a diminishing few. that's what the nsa spying is really all about. it has nothing to do with terrorism.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 11:43:18 PM PDT

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        •  I'm not saying we had no influence, I'm (0+ / 0-)

          saying WE have to take back the moral authority.  I'm saying surveillance isn't a US glitch, it's acceptable to governing bodies everywhere, and it's rarely used for high moral purposes.  The Internet is international, why not use it to spread the propaganda of shared ideals, why not a targeted outreach that shows that there are no national boundaries on the big blue marble?  I'm done with fear-mongering and hopelessness.  Go big, go with inspiration.  We're heading toward tinier and tinier cohorts, each willing to destroy everyone not like them.  George Washington believed our success as a nation would depend largely on our willingness to put personal preferences and beliefs second to the good of the most.  Can you see that willingness growing?  I see it shrinking.  I see our national motto being "I've got mine, fuck you.", with zero tolerance for opposing opinions.  

          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

          by I love OCD on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 07:38:32 AM PDT

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          •  It starts at the top with Obama (0+ / 0-)

            And you're right, there is no "hope" as long as he's promoting anti-democratic activities by our government, and around the world.

            Before you can "change," you have to acknowledge your mistakes

            With "friends" like the current Democratic "leadership" the "enemies" of Progressive politics and small "d" democracy (Republicans/conservatives) are irrelevant.

            There IS a cold war going on within the Democratic Party on these issues for it's soul, and people need to choose which side they are on.  If the Obama/Hoyer wing holds on and "wins," the party as an agent for genuine Progressive change in America IS hopeless.  We will just continue slipping rightwards.

            Until the next "real" war (revolution) provides real "change."

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