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View Diary: White House Cites Bush-Era NSA Chief to Support Claim There's No 'Domestic Spying' (179 comments)

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  •  I found the problem (12+ / 0-)
    tens of millions of database events a month.  
    •  I found the other one (8+ / 0-)
      The internal NSA audit showed a fraction of a fraction of computer glitch errors
      In other news, Mitt Romney says he's paid his taxes every year. And no, you can't see his taxes, but trust him on this, guys.

      "Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Elie Wiesel

      by Jason Hackman on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 03:54:07 PM PDT

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      •  So the internal audit is a lie as well? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Reggid

        Everything that doesn't fit the narrative?  LIE.

        Evidence?  NOT NEEDED.

        We know the NSA is illegally spying without warrants because Greenwald.

        But wait, there's a solution!  

        If everything's a lie, why not just write down the conclusion you've already reached and then read it back to yourself.

        Then you can tell yourself you read it somewhere.  And that scrap of paper is the One Truth.

        Epistemology loop?  CLOSED!

        •  Why would an internal audit be enough? (5+ / 0-)

          Why would you trust the NSA to police itself?

          I have no narrative. I have questions. Since the NSA works for me the burden is on them to answer honestly and to the best of their ability. Even if it's found through an independent audit that there has been no spying on Americans, I'm not convinced all this spying is necessary and would like to see some proof that it is. Don't you?

          "Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Elie Wiesel

          by Jason Hackman on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 04:34:02 PM PDT

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          •  I don't trust the NSA (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Reggid

            I'm simply pointing out that no evidence exists of abuse of the system.  

            Your post is measured and reasonable but many others around here have given in to hyperbole and hysteria.

            All we've learned is that oversight needs to be strengthened -- which is a very important point. But the hyperbole around here is so far beyond that point that it's turning into the left wing version of Obama's Birth Certificate.

            We're not supposed to believe in rumor, innuendo, and conspiracy theory.  That for the Limbaughs and Hannitys.  We're supposed to believe in facts.

            •  ummm doesn't Snowden's leak count as (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Laconic Lib, TheMomCat, fuzzyguy

              evidence that the system can be abused?

              just sayin'...

              "The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~George Orwell "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

              by poligirl on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 04:45:30 PM PDT

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              •  No! It is actually proof of NSA wholesomeness (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Laconic Lib, poligirl, fuzzyguy

                and goodness, magically, and really it only makes Greenwald look bad, somehow.

                I know this song, it's like a bad pop song stuck in my head.

                Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

                by greenbastard on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 04:51:41 PM PDT

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              •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

                But it's not proof that the system is being abused, and that's a critical distinction.

                •  but Snowden is proof that the system is ripe (0+ / 0-)

                  for abuse *even* if i accept your premise.

                  and something that is capable of the type of damage that could be done by it with abuse should not be in existence, for someone else down the road to play with. and it's all secret so we'll never know.

                  we really don't know if there's abuse. the token audit only included the Ft Meade/DC facilities and only encompassed one year. seems a bit selective to me. and i for one am not believing anything that comes out of a gov't mouthpiece's mouth at this point.

                  "The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~George Orwell "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

                  by poligirl on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 05:14:39 PM PDT

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                  •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

                    I only wish more people wrote a measured understanding like you just wrote.

                    Libertarian agit-prop masters like Greenwald simply want to burn the United States government to the ground.  If they can scare people with fantasies of monsters lurking in our computer, then that's how they'll do it.

                    I agree that we need better oversight.  But that's not a reason to demonize our government with myths and innuendos.

            •  There is evidence enough to do an investigation (0+ / 0-)

              particularly given the multiple red flags, such as the nonsense talk Hayden is spouting here and President Obama's initial suggestion that the "independent" investigation be reported through Clapper, a man who committed perjury that he isn't even being charged with. I'm not seeing the hyperbole and hysteria that you are, but I do see people who are rightly fed up with this shell game and deserve answers.

              This doesn't look like lies and obfuscation to you?

              "Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Elie Wiesel

              by Jason Hackman on Mon Aug 19, 2013 at 06:07:53 PM PDT

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              •  It looks like the NSA being the NSA (0+ / 0-)

                Obviously they don't want to talk about what they do.  That still doesn't mean it's some massive coverup of abuse of the system.

                If anything, Snowden's leaks have shown that there are checks and balances in the system.  

                Investigating the NSA?  For what?  There's still no evidence of crimes, just a patchwork, flawed system.

                I find reforming the FISA court to be far more powerful in terms of oversight of warrants to be the only real important play here.  

                •  If they're not doing anything wrong (0+ / 0-)

                  they have nothing to hide. An independent audit/investigation will find the flaws that need to be reformed. We agree. I don't see your argument apart from the insistence that there is no wrongdoing. If there truly isn't then an investigation is the best way to clear their names, as it was with Issa's ill-fated investigation of the IRS.

                  "Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Elie Wiesel

                  by Jason Hackman on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 11:32:08 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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