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View Diary: RKBA: Suggestions (435 comments)

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  •  Full criminal background checks on every sale (7+ / 0-)

    and transfer. While the diary proposes many reasonable idea, this one would do directly to reduce the number of guns going into the hands of criminals, a direct effect as opposed to a secondary effect like most of the suggestions in the diary.

    Bonus is that this violates nobody's rights (constitutional or other).

    “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    by DefendOurConstitution on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 09:12:39 AM PDT

    •  I'm wondering if people are getting the wrong (8+ / 0-)

      idea with this diary.

      This is a collection of RKBA ideas to reduce/prevent firearm related violence (and indeed, a lot will work for ALL violent crime).

      This isn't an Open Thread.

      While I don't oppose UBCs, neither do I support them.

      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 09:14:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I thought that it was about ideas to reduce gun (3+ / 0-)

        violence.  Is it closed to non members or to people with different ideas?

        “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

        by DefendOurConstitution on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 09:16:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You can't close diaries to people you don't (7+ / 0-)

          want to see there. I wouldn't do that anyway.

          My suggestion would be to discuss the ideas put forth in the diary. The whole point of this was to discuss said ideas. If you'd like to discuss your idea (which isn't included in the diary), I'd wait until the next OT diary if you want to discuss it in the RKBA group setting.

          Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

          by KVoimakas on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 09:19:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The diary is about pro-RKBA people putting forth (4+ / 0-)

            ideas and since I have always defended the right to keep and bear arms (RKBA for short), I happen to be one of those pro-RKBA people putting forth ideas.  In any case your tags invite anyone interested in:
                Civil Rights
                firearms
                Guns
                marijuana
                RKBA
                Second Amendment
                violence prevention
                violence reduction

            and I will continue to avail myself of my First Amendment rights to ask again that you desist from continuing to conflate Civil Rights with gun rights. If you can produce any government document (law, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, etc.) I may reconsider, but until then I will continue to tell you how offensive it is that you keep comparing any firearms regulations to actual violations of people's rights (be it Blacks, women, Hispanics, LGBT, or others that have truly been discriminated against). None of the firearms regulations suggested by me or the great majority here are discriminatory in any way.

            “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

            by DefendOurConstitution on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 09:30:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It was only a suggestion. (8+ / 0-)

              You can keep asking. I'll keep saying no.

              Firearm regulations (some anyway) are violations of the peoples' right to keep and bear arms.

              Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 09:52:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  ....See, if I thought you were discussing in good (7+ / 0-)

              faith, I'd have no problem with your proposals.

              Past experience dealing with you and this:

              DefendOurConstitution's Profile

              Groups:     Black Kos community, Sluts, Sexism and Patriarchy, Shut Down the NRA, Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA), Support The Dream Defenders, LGBT Rights are Human Rights

              Lead me to believe you're not.

              Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 10:08:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Repealing the 2nd Amendment would not ban... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DefendOurConstitution, coquiero

                ...a single gun.

                Stop the NRA and the NSA
                Repeal the Patriot Act and the 2nd Amendment

                by dream weaver on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 10:11:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Do you have a problem with amending the US (3+ / 0-)

                Constitution?  All that I have ever proposed within that group is amending the 2A to clarify exactly what it means as well as the limits or regulations that may apply to it.

                I for one am very glad that the Constitution is a living document and we have made many good changes (for example the XIV and XIX Amendments).

                “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

                by DefendOurConstitution on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 10:15:16 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I have a problem with amending the Bill of Rights. (9+ / 0-)

                  Especially when it constrains rights enshrined therein.

                  You want to talk about expansion of rights, I'd probably not have a problem with it.

                  Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                  by KVoimakas on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 10:24:22 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  So you are saying that none of the Amendments (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    dream weaver, a2nite

                    can be amended? Why the special protection for 1-10? Why aren't XIV and XIX (among others) also immovable? Why would Amendments 1-10 not be subject to change if the entire body of the Constitution is allowed to change?  In any case, I cannot understand why you would oppose a re-writing of the Second Amendment to clarify exactly what it means (it obviously would include an individual right to own firearms).

                    “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

                    by DefendOurConstitution on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 10:51:24 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Did I ever say constraint? I thought I said clari- (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    a2nite

                    fy.

                    nt

                    “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

                    by DefendOurConstitution on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 10:52:13 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Some people prefer to think of the Constitution (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  DefendOurConstitution

                  as enshrined, and their own ideas about it as the Gospel of the 2A.

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 11:17:45 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Rights are enshrined in the Bill of Rights. (6+ / 0-)

                    That's kind of the point...

                    enshrined  past participle, past tense of en·shrine (Verb)
                    Verb
                    Place (a revered or precious object) in an appropriate receptacle.
                    Preserve (a right, tradition, or idea) in a form that ensures it will be protected and respected.

                    Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                    by KVoimakas on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 11:24:10 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Rights are enshrined in the entire Constitution (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    LilithGardener, a2nite

                    and the only way to protect those rights is to update/amend the Constitution as the times change to make sure that they are not interpreted by some Scalia yahoo with 4 buddies that has an agenda against the American people.

                    We should amend the First & Fourth Amendments to make sure that it clearly states that this FISC/FISA/NSA BS is completely out of bounds, as presently the ScaliaRoberts Five usurp and reinterpret them any way they want under the guise of "original intent."

                    The right to elect our senators is enshrined, but was (wrongly IMHO) done in a way that robbed the people in the states from selecting their senator and this right was clarified/improved by means of an amendment.

                    “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

                    by DefendOurConstitution on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 11:58:38 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Won't argue that point (entire Constitution) (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      theatre goon, gerrilea, fuzzyguy

                      but I was talking about the BoR, which is why I referenced it there.

                      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                      by KVoimakas on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 12:07:17 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  I know courts use that word enshrined but it's (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      DefendOurConstitution, a2nite

                      really not worth the religious elevation for a document that has been amended to corr3ect immoral and unethical laws, and it's clear some rights have been eroded because laws have not kept pace with technological change.

                      I am for the Whole bill of rights, and believe we are in the throes of a constitutional crisis. A number of the Amendments could do with strengthening or clarification. Not to mention adopting the Equal Rights Amendment.

                      But I'm a realist, and won't be holding my breath waiting on Congress.

                      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                      by LilithGardener on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 12:08:51 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Absolutely, only absolutists like Scalia insist (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        a2nite

                        that nothing can be changed (except of course any time it is convenient to his cause then it is OK).  It was meant to change and the current political climate has made it so that it cannot change - that is one of the main reasons that the government is usurping rights, a fixed and outdated Constitution is much easier to manipulate to their advantage. It is mostly Republicans that subscribe to this, but sadly too many Democrats as well.

                        “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

                        by DefendOurConstitution on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 12:25:24 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  You keep insisting that the word must have a.... (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        theatre goon, FrankRose, fuzzyguy

                        religious implication.

                        But that's not true.

                        Your hate-mail will be graded.

                        by PavePusher on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 09:45:08 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  It's an immoral and unethical document (0+ / 0-)

                        that advocated for evil white male supremacy the entire thing is is worse than garbage.

                        The only people who benefit are the people who want things to stay the same or go backwards, mostly evil white supremacist men and their abettors.

                        nosotros no somos estúpidos

                        by a2nite on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 09:00:11 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, man, shut up with your ideas (4+ / 0-)

          Jeez, DoC, just be quiet and discuss what you're told!

          From the first line or this diary it is patently obvious that this isn't really about the free flow of ideas.

          It sounds more to me like when people say the Republicans have no new ideas, and then they throw out a few "ideas" that are really re-hashing of old ideas, or ones that are unworkable, but they can say, "Hey!  At least we're putting ideas out there!"

          I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

          by coquiero on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 09:25:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  3 months later (13+ / 0-)

        You will be accused of never putting out any ideas on how to help reduce the issues this diary addresses.

        Again....

      •  Nah, I'd say it's intentional attempts to derail. (7+ / 0-)

        For whatever reason, there are those who would prefer to interfere in this discussion rather than sincerely contribute to it.

        It makes me think we must be on the right track, since there are so many disingenuous attacks being lobbed at the diary itself, and those attempting to engage in meaningful discussion.

        Or, there are those out there who just enjoy derailing discussion for its own sake.

        Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

        by theatre goon on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 09:39:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I am a member of RKBA (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener, KVoimakas, fuzzyguy

        and I support univeral background checks (4473) for all firearms purchases [1], including criminal penalties for both buyer and sellers not complying. I am supporting Washington Initiative 594. It doesn't try and create any new process, but simply requires the use of the existing dealer background check system, already used for out of state purchases, to be used for in-state private sales. It even specifically exempts these private sales from state sales tax.

        I recently purchased a gun from Texas, demonstrating to myself again that the dealer system works just fine. My local dealer charges $25 to handle the transfer. I think this could help prevent straw buyers and make it more difficult for criminals to get guns, if every (or even most) states had a background check requirement. If you look over that list of 10 laws Lilith you will find that item makes a sharp drop in a state being a source. Most others are less clear, particularly when you start looking state to state, instead of just overall. Of course, about half of that list of 10 I cannot support at all.  

        [1] certain limited transfers within family, spouses, parents, children, grandparents, should be allowed

        A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

        by notrouble on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 05:33:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  This seems like a very reasonable accomodation (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          notrouble, just another vet
          It even specifically exempts these private sales from state sales tax.
          Like I've stated elsewhere, I think progress will come at the state level, and different states have different problems to solve. I'm not suggesting that every state should or would adopt all 10 laws.

          I agree that just as failure has many fathers, so does success. What works for Vermont doesn't necessarily replicate.

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 06:00:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Typo! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KVoimakas, LilithGardener
          If you look over that list of 10 laws Lilith you will find that item makes a sharp drop in a state being a source.
          should read:
          If you look over that list of 10 laws Lilith posted earlier you will find that item makes a sharp drop in a state being a source.

          A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

          by notrouble on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 06:18:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No worries, happens a bit for me, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            notrouble

            and can occasionally be quite funny when it's a word switched on the ipad, and I don't notice. I also use voice to text, and don't always catch the misspellings.

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 06:43:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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