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View Diary: Joy Reid tacitly defends David Miranda's detention (226 comments)

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  •  What exactly did the GCHQ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kharma, DeadHead, quill

    ...find in Miranda's electronic devices?

    all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

    by 4kedtongue on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 01:30:59 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Stolen classified documents from Snowden's haul. (0+ / 0-)

      Well, according to Greenwald, anyway.

      If you believe him.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 02:58:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Stolen by Snowden (7+ / 0-)

        not Greenwald, not Poitras, not Miranda.

        Like Ellsberg stole the PEntagon Papers, not the WaPo, not the NYTimes.

      •  No...I don't think that's what Greenwald said. (5+ / 0-)
        Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said.
        http://www.nytimes.com/...

        'documents related to' is vague.  Doesn't actually mean that actual Snowden documents were part of the cache.  

        And I do believe him.  I just am able to read.  Nowhere in that quote to Charlie Savage of the NYT does Greenwald actually say they were Snowden documents.  

        Sorry.

        And that's kinda the point.

        You don't know.  You don't even know by reading that quote in the NYT.

        Neither do the Brits.

        Miranda probably doesn't even know.

        all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

        by 4kedtongue on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 03:25:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And the very next sentence of that paragraph reads (0+ / 0-)
          Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden.
          I'm going to give you one chance to say this was an honest mistake.

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 03:34:05 PM PDT

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          •  No, the part you've highlighted... (4+ / 0-)

            ...is unattributed to Greenwald.

            It's vague.

            What I block quoted ended at "Greenwald said," because that's all I can be certain he said based on how the paragraph is written.

            It wasn't an honest mistake.  I just am not in a position to know if Greenwald was the source of the information you highlighted in the paragraph.

            all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

            by 4kedtongue on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 03:49:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I gave you a chance. (0+ / 0-)

              Now you're being willfully dishonest.

              With me or yourself, I don't know.

              I know I'm done with this exchange.

              Art is the handmaid of human good.

              by joe from Lowell on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 03:51:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm completely serious. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DeadHead, joanneleon, TheMomCat

                I'm not being dishonest.

                Personally, I think there's a reason why the two sentences which precede the sentence you highlighted and the one that directly follows it are directly attributed to Greenwald specifically.  It puzzles me why the highlighted one isn't.  And it was something I thought about PRIOR to our exchange.

                I'm not trying to be disingenuous.

                all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                by 4kedtongue on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 03:57:36 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  . (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                joanneleon
                Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden. The British authorities seized all of his electronic media — including video games, DVDs and data storage devices — and did not return them, Mr. Greenwald said.

                all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                by 4kedtongue on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 04:00:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  How can you read that as being from a diff source. (0+ / 0-)

                  That's the paragraph that describes Greenwald's statement about the documents.

                  You don't write the same quote tag over and over again when it doesn't change; that's just basic style.

                  And at this point, where there's been no correction from Greenwald, even if you found it ambiguous, any residual doubt should be cleared up.

                  Art is the handmaid of human good.

                  by joe from Lowell on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 04:05:11 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  See below. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    joanneleon, TheMomCat

                    I don't want a spat, and I'm being honest with you.

                    The attribution in that paragraph is murky.

                    Two reporters combined their reporting and wrote ONE piece.

                    It is impossible to determine, based on how the paragraph is written since the article has 2 authors, who the source of the unattributed sentence is.

                    all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                    by 4kedtongue on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 04:08:53 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  OK, let's say that's true. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      4kedtongue

                      At this point, if it was false, would the ever-loqutious Mr. Greenwald be quiet about it?

                      Art is the handmaid of human good.

                      by joe from Lowell on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 04:12:01 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  He's a lawyer... (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        TheMomCat

                        ...I don't think he'd reveal what was encrypted in those devices.  I think he'd be vague -- which, according to what is directly attributed to him, seems to be the case.

                        Funny, though, this would be a GREAT question for The Public Editor.

                        No kidding, joe from Lowell, I'm not playing games here.  I'm really confused by the paragraph, and I think it needs clarification.  Until I read or hear Greenwald directly say anything about the specific content of those electronic devices, I (personally) can't be sure there are any Snowden documents in there.  Work related to the Snowden documents, sure.  But Snowden documents themselves, that's not clear to me.

                        all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                        by 4kedtongue on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 04:18:58 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

              •  . (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TheMomCat
                Charlie Savage reported from Washington, and Michael Schwirtz from New York.
                There were 2 reporters working on this story.

                Their words and sentences and sources may have been combined.

                Placing the sentence you highlighted in between what was attributed to Greenwald is common practice, but it doesn't mean that the source of the sentence you highlighted came from Greenwald.

                all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                by 4kedtongue on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 04:05:29 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Tonight (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TheMomCat, 4kedtongue

              on AC360, Greenwald did not say that what Miranda was carrying was Snowden documents, so I think it's wise to read it the way you're reading it, alias.

              My theory is that they were working on video documentary work, which is Poitras' specialty.  The law suit filed by lawyers on behalf of Miranda asks that the digitial material not be used, which would be kind of silly if it was just the Snowden documents, which came from the govt in the first place and which the US does not exactly want to be published.  I think it's unfinished journalistic work that they want to be returned to them without putting it out in the public. But this is all a guess and speculation based on some of the things that we know.


              "Justice is a commodity"

              by joanneleon on Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 09:05:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thank you for this... (0+ / 0-)

                ...I just watched the interview and feel confident that my reading of the NYT's article was correct.

                all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                by 4kedtongue on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 05:19:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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