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View Diary: US Pastor/Author of Ugandan 'Kill the Gays' Bill Charged with Crimes Against Humanity (174 comments)

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    •  As an Anglican, the very idea of calling anyone (30+ / 0-)

      "Bishop" who is not in apostolic succession makes me very ill.

      I resent that. I demand snark, and overly so -- Markos Moulitsas.

      by commonmass on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 06:18:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you play chess? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ericlewis0, avsp, Fishtroller01, Rogneid

        Sorry, this just struck me funny. Sometimes it overcomes me and I had a good chuckle. Perhaps you should be flattered that the Mormons chose to imitate Anglican clergy titles?  Well, maybe not.

        "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe it." Neil deGrasse Tyson

        by pvasileff on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 07:41:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hyperbolic Succession (17+ / 0-)

        As an atheist, the very idea of anyone called "Bishop" being paid the slightest attention in their pronouncements makes me laugh. The popular practice of it makes me very ill. Arguments over which charlatan owns the trademark make me cackle.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Wed Aug 21, 2013 at 07:41:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Count me among those ... (10+ / 0-)

          ... cackling with you!

          And what's with all the nut-bag last names suddenly having ironic and perverse double-meanings lately!?

          First we have 3 Teabagging nut-jobs named "Dick Cash," "Lee Bright," and "Nancy Mace" all foaming at the mouth to un-seat Lindsay Graham ... and now this sick fucker's name is "Lively" and he wants to kill people!

          What's the world coming to? (Wait ... don't answer that!)

          --GA

          Appraise the Lord! : Tax Church Property. O <-- Circle of Trust. YOU are Here: ------------> x

          by Great Ape on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 02:02:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Can't Keep Your Hate Shut? (0+ / 0-)

          More character assassination by one of the "New Atheists?"  

          Nice of you to slander a person who has been a great supporter of a long time Kossack, commonmass.

          Are you another purity troll, purging the left of any who don't fit your notion of who should be a progressive. This crap gets old...

          People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. - George Orwell

          by paz3 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 01:03:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Gee, where were you when commonmass (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Certifiable Genius, DocGonzo

            was having a name calling fest aimed at anyone who didn't agree to worship the ideas that he worships. Even Christians were calling him out on it.

            I think Daily Kos should have a special place where all you "troll" obsessors can get together and share your indignation over people who just don't see religious opinions as immune to scrutiny, criticism and even ridicule... they are no different than political opinions.

            No one slammed commonmass's character. Grow up!

          •  Your Hate (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Certifiable Genius

            I'm not a "New Atheist", just an atheist. Just because you hate people who tell the truth about superstition doesn't mean I hate. No, I won't keep that shut. Silence about superstition has been the best friend to superstition's power through the ages.

            I didn't assassinate commonmass' character. In fact I simply echoed their more obnoxious comment about the superiority of their religion over another's by pointing out they're all fake.

            I don't think you even know what "purity troll" means, as it's nonsense. I didn't impugn anybody's progressive credentials, or whether they should be on the left.

            What I did was mock the credential of "bishop" generally as an extension of commonmass' mocking the credential of a rival church's bishop status.

            What you did was parade a stream of lies and irrationality that is the same old crap people propping up religious charlatans have always invoked. What's "new" is that after millennia of abusing that privilege, you and your superstitious authoritarian ilk don't have enough support to get away with it any more.

            If you don't keep your hatred to yourself, you're going to get even more pointed explanations of the dynamic here. There's certainly far more of it left to offer.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 03:37:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Hate? Projection on steroids! (0+ / 0-)

              Nowhere is there any "hate" in my comment, so you must have been "hated" by someone else of a religious bent.

              What you did was parade a stream of lies and irrationality that is the same old crap people propping up religious charlatans have always invoked. What's "new" is that after millennia of abusing that privilege, you and your superstitious authoritarian ilk don't have enough support to get away with it any more.
              Nice! You attack me for attempting, however weakly, to defend someone's else's apparent faith. Wowzer!

              What I was referring to is the seeming need of some atheists to intervene in so many diary threads by making snide and mean-spirited comments about aspects of people's faith when they happen to mention it. There's no "hate" here, fro me, it's as if you felt you had to bring a 50 mm cannon to a fist fight by invoking the "hate" meme. I don't know you or FishTroller, so how could I "hate" either of you? That requires full engagement, don't flatter yourself!

              Listen, man, my true concern is the division that some seem to want to spread here, perhaps unknowingly, by attacking any mention of a person's faith. What's the point? Try bringing the love, I don't hate anyone, although I do "hate" the behavior of some (not you), mostly people like the subjects of this diary.

              When's the last time someone here at DKos jumped into a comment made by a professed atheist and attacked aspects of their sincere beliefs? I'd have no occasion to do that, as someone else's beliefs are no threat to me at all. Love you, man, believe it.

              I can adhere to what's below, and I hope that others will consider it:

              Potential New Rule

              Any language designed to denigrate someone on the basis of race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, nationality, physical appearance, etc. is prohibited. Leave that shit to the Republicans.

              Furthermore, we recognize that denigrating language aimed at recognized or historical targets of sexism, racism, discrimination or prejudice on the basis of race, sex, gender, sexual orientation/gender identity, religion, nationality, physical appearance, etc. is especially harmful because it reinforces the existing structures of oppression. Although we will not tolerate denigrating language aimed at anyone, we recognize that not all insults are morally equivalent.

              People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. - George Orwell

              by paz3 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 07:28:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your Hate (0+ / 0-)

                You are so absorbed in your hatred that you're ignoring where you jumped in and posted at me the lowlights excepted:

                character assassination

                slander

                another purity troll, purging the left of any who don't fit your notion of who should be a progressive. This crap gets old...

                And your suggestion I "keep my hate shut". When I point out that you're pointing your hatred at me, you say I'm projecting. Your psychological disorder is profound.

                I replied to someone posting that calling someone else's "bishop" by that term made them sick by posting that taking anone seriously on the basis of a religious office is silly and makes me sick. Their religious intolerance towards another disqualified them to be entitled to any. You attack me for that with your hate. Which doesn't require "full engagement". In fact, I didn't "fully engage" anyone any more than you have. Somehow, your standards of hate apply to me far more than you apply them to yourself.

                You say your concern is anyone attacking anyone else in division over a person's faith, but you said nothing about the original attack that I commented on. An original attack that really is divisive, really is an attack on people of faith, and which wasn't even posted where its target(s) could see it, unlike mine. But you're attacking me. Badly.

                You don't have any standing to propose rules. You're deranged.

                "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                by DocGonzo on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 01:00:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Peace Be With You (0+ / 0-)

                  Well, I apologize for my poorly thought choice of words, those you quote.

                  No, I did not grok the original attack that you're referring to.

                  Again, I am sorry.

                  As to "new atheists," there are some posters here who seem to go OT real quick whenever someone mentions their reliance on their faith, I am now presuming that you are not like that.

                  New rules? Standing? Did you check the link I put up along with the text? You may be hip-shooting, which is notoriously inaccurate.

                  Hope we can can get along, going forward, as you post a lot of pertinent information and experiences, particularly concerning racism.

                  People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. - George Orwell

                  by paz3 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 02:09:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  i know (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          steveannie

          desmond tutu? dude's a choad, amirite?

          anyone born after the McDLT has no business stomping around acting punk rock

          by chopper on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 02:20:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Moral, Not Religious, Authority (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Certifiable Genius

            Tutu's respectable because of his acts of moral leadership, not because of the title given him by a church. If he wants to call himself "Bishop", or even "Ballet" for that matter, I'll call him that with respect. But not because I respect the religion that his title came from, or the imaginary authority it's supposed to bestow.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 03:40:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  His moral authority is spiritual (0+ / 0-)

              and comes from the fact that he represents the BEST of his religious tradition, the Golden Rule, the Sermon on the Mount, etc., rather than the authoritarian regulations.  All religious traditions (eventually) progress from the superstitious to the spiritually "ethereal," in which the highest moral principles common to all humanity take precedence over rules and rituals.

              Since a bishop's moral authority comes from his office in his church, and Tutu used that authority to condemn the apartheid regime rather than to uphold it, he "recruited" more assistance in that struggle than a purely humanist philosopher would have done.

              There is no need to PUSH an atheistic philosophy and belittle ALL religion and religious people, since there is no way we can OBJECTIVELY know the answer about God.  If we all respect one another, we can make this life, and any afterlife that MAY exist, better for all of us.  If not, the people with evil intentions will be able to use EITHER religion OR an atheist ideology to divide the rest of us and achieve their goals.

              Peace and blessings to all.

      •  Bispham. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ericlewis0

        An Eastern Shore - Delawre name, pronounced "bishop."

        Thump! Bang. Whack-boing. It's dub!

        by dadadata on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 03:51:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I had a connection in SLC one time last decade (8+ / 0-)

        and the plane was absolutely full of Mormon "elders," none of whom were over 20 years old.  They were completely goofy as you'd expect that kind of age group to be and it was hilarious hearing them call each other "Elder Jones" and "Elder Wilson," etc, as they were goosing each other and making fun of each others' zits and braces.

        "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi // Question: "succeed" at what?

        by nailbender on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 04:53:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Apostolic succession? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Certifiable Genius

        Seriously, it makes you ill when people crack jokes like "Bishop Romney" because you really believe that current bishops are traced back to the apostles? And that there's something "holy" about these men? I think you should actually feel ill when you call someone a "dick" on this site.   Your moral priorities are skewed, sir!

      •  As an atheist, the very idea of believing in (0+ / 0-)

        apostolic succession makes my head hurt.

      •  Yep the Juju must be magically passed by direct (0+ / 0-)

        physical contact from one apostle/bishop to the next. Started out with 12 apostles (maybe 11 because you know Judas died right off, maybe 14 because there were some women, but shush we don't talk about girls - they have cooties) and there are thousands of bishops now. The Juju is getting pretty diluted. It's at, like, homeopathic levels now. Only our system of Juju transmission works. Nothing genuine without this seal.

        "An egg is not poultry.” An old Blues tune's brilliant insight into the notion that a zygote can, in any sense, be "a person."

        by carbonman1950 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 05:32:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I understand (0+ / 0-)

        When I was growing up as a Methodist, we had bishops and we were taught about Apostolic Succession, but I am not sure that the Church of England, the mother of the Methodist Church, recognizes their bishops as being in the Succession.  For that matter, does the Catholic Church recognize Anglican and Episcopal bishops (aside from the openly gay ones) as Apostolic?  Does the Orthodox Church recognize Catholic bishops? For what it's worth, the (merged in the 1960's) United Methodist Church calls their bishops District Superintendents nowadays.

        The LDS claims that the original group surrounding Smith were apostles (in fact, their leadership are CALLED Apostles), which makes their bishops Apostolic in their own eyes.

        And among totally independent congregations which recruit their clergy by charismatic reputation, the ministers of particularly large and active congregations adopt the title Bishop. not particularly caring about the A.S. which many Protestant denominations do not recognize anyway.

        This seems to be prevalent among predominantly black congregations, but one predominantly black denomination, the AME (African Methodist Episcopal) still follows the A.S. model.

        And actually, "bishop" is from the Greek word for "supervisor."

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