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View Diary: Pfc. Manning Statement Re: Gender Identity on Today Show (137 comments)

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  •  Again, hold up a second. (1+ / 0-)
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    aitchdee
    Because a third of transpeople having attempted suicide in their lives shows that being trans is just some little trivial cosmetic issue.
    I never said that. Keep trying to demonize me but I have absolutely no problem with transgender people undergoing treatment to suit their own needs.
    The rate of trans regret for hormones and SRS is a tiny fraction of the rate of regret for taking chemotherapy or undergoing heart surgery.
    What? When did I say anything about regret? I'm not some asshole trying to make the point that transgender people are blundering into a spontaneous mistake that they will regret later. As for people who "regret" chemo... I'm just confused. People get chemo treatment for deadly diseases. Do they "regret" getting the disease? Do the ones that refuse treatment "regret" dying? I'm just not seeing the relevance here.
    Speak up, what's your real objection to trans people getting treatment?
    I have no objection to trans people getting treatment, but thanks for phrasing that in a misleading way.

    My issue is with people getting hormone therapy in prison, and that therapy being paid for by taxpayer dollars. Because that's not the same thing as needing treatment for cancer.

    Speaking frankly, my thought is "Well, if you're a transgender person and you want hormone therapy... Don't go to prison?"

    In all honesty, this is the first time I've considered the question. If you noticed above, I didn't say I was opposed to it, I said I wasn't sure. I do not want to downplay things like hormone therapy and its relation to the well-being of trans people, nor the uniquely vulnerable position trans people hold in society. But in a prison setting, where the medical care is given through taxpayer dollars, I believe that care should be given only out of physical necessity.

    But again, although a transgender person's hormone therapy is not the same thing as needing chemo for cancer, it's also not the same as a female prisoner wanting a boob job. It's a gray area.

    ......

    I can't imagine what it'd be like to be a transgender person. I know the suicide statistics, and I know that transgender people generally have it way tougher than I do. In light of that, I'd be okay with someone like Manning receiving hormone therapy in prison. Is such hormone therapy a true "necessity" for a transgender person? That's the essential question, and who am I (straight white male) to say?

    And yes, I guess I did just go from "wavering" to "support" over the course of one comment.

    Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

    by Boogalord on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 11:58:31 AM PDT

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    •  "given only out of physical necessity'? So (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AaronInSanDiego, antimony, aitchdee, Rei

      depression should not be treated? or anxiety? If the condition is mental or psychological then the treatment needs to be also.



      Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

      by Wee Mama on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 01:02:05 PM PDT

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    •  Re (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      antimony
      Because a third of transpeople having attempted suicide in their lives shows that being trans is just some little trivial cosmetic issue.
      I never said that. Keep trying to demonize me but I have absolutely no problem with transgender people undergoing treatment to suit their own needs.
      Either you admit the seriousness of it, and thus support that it should be covered, or play down that it's not serious, wherein you and I have some very big disagreements.  Which is it?  Or is there some third option I'm not seeing here?
      As for people who "regret" chemo... I'm just confused. People get chemo treatment for deadly diseases. Do they "regret" getting the disease?
      They regret chemo because chemo is an utterly miserable experience and it's not a guarantee you won't die anyway, and can sometimes kill you faster than the disease alone.
      My issue is with people getting hormone therapy in prison, and that therapy being paid for by taxpayer dollars. Because that's not the same thing as needing treatment for cancer.
      Do I have to repeat my whole previous posts?  

      1) Trans people pay for your medical conditions with their taxes and copays and such.  Why should they have to pay for your medical conditions but not vice versa?  Why should prisons cover everyone's medical conditions except transpeoples?  Especially if you acknowledge the seriousness of it.

      2) Mentioning cancer is not simply wrong from the percent of people who don't regret the treatment and think it improved there lives versus treatment for trans people - but wrong from the perspective that prisoners aren't offered "cancer care insurance", they're offered general medical care.  An inmate can get a freaking wart removed at taxpayer expense.  You think that's more serious than a medical condition that leads to a third of its sufferers trying to kill themselves?

      Speaking frankly, my thought is "Well, if you're a transgender person and you want hormone therapy... Don't go to prison?"
      Hey, while we're being so supportive of denying prisoners medical care, why not give them medical conditions to suffer even more!  
      I do not want to downplay things like hormone therapy and its relation to the well-being of trans people
      No, certainly not, you just support carving out an gaping exception in prisoner medical coverage specifically for transpeople.  That's in no way playing it down, of course not.
      But in a prison setting, where the medical care is given through taxpayer dollars, I believe that care should be given only out of physical necessity.
      Right.  Wart?  Necessary.  Condition that leads to high rate of suicide?  Pish....

      Look... I'm probably being too hard on you... you say you haven't thought much about it before, and I understand.  The important element to take away here is, it's a giant hole carved out of insurance policies for a serious condition, and the only reason it's carved out is bigotry.  There's no medically justifiable reason for this hole.  The AMA and the APA support the treatment of transpeople.  

      Já þýðir já. Nei þýðir nei. Hvað er svona erfitt við það?

      by Rei on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 01:10:16 PM PDT

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      •  Hrm. (0+ / 0-)
        They regret chemo because chemo is an utterly miserable experience and it's not a guarantee you won't die anyway, and can sometimes kill you faster than the disease alone.
        I'm quite aware of that. Sometimes people who take chemo actually see their cancer go into remission, too. Again, I'm not seeing how "regret" factors into this discussion or cancer treatments.
        prisoners aren't offered "cancer care insurance", they're offered general medical care.  An inmate can get a freaking wart removed at taxpayer expense.
        If that's true, then I betray my own ignorance. I was under the impression penal medical care was provided only for potentially life-threatening problems. Thanks for correcting me.

        If you can get a wart removed in prison, then sure, I don't see why hormonal therapy shouldn't be covered.

        Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

        by Boogalord on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 02:25:06 PM PDT

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