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View Diary: Obama proposals to lower college costs fail to tackle the real driver of rising tuition (170 comments)

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  •  agree mostly, but I can't resist: (6+ / 0-)
    This year my school is $14,000 and MIT is $55,000 ... almost 30 years later. I can say without question, neither is worth that kind of money, just buy the textbooks and teach yourself for 1/10th the cost.
    Unfortunately, in most disciplines, people do need the credentials, so just buying the textbooks and teaching oneself isn't an option if one hopes for employment.  

    And don't even get me started on the college textbook racket!  How often I've taught out of "fourth" and "sixth" editions of textbooks that never bothered to correct the typos from the first edition.  But they did do new fonts and kerning, and recropped the pictures, so that there would be no page-by-page correspondence between the "editions" . . .

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 10:16:20 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Aren't MIT lectures online (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Roadbed Guy

      for nothing?

      Linky

      www.tapestryofbronze.com

      by chloris creator on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 11:06:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, but so is Wikipedia (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NoMoreLies, chuckvw, The Jester

        the point being is that huge amounts of information are out there "for the taking"

        That's not the value of elite schools however.  The value lies in actually getting to know your peers personally, which is going to be a lifelong asset as you rub their back and they rub yours (both literally and figuratively as far as I can ascertain).

        •  not just the networking (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Roadbed Guy, corvo

          the value of education is in explaining how that raw information works, how to read, analyze, and express one's ideas in writing, etc.

          that's where MOOCs and all the other supposed tech fixes fail. the core value of education is in the actual educating, which is far, far more than a pile of facts and data.

          •  Not sure why a MOOC couldn't teach those (0+ / 0-)

            things.

            Insofar as they are primarily intended to provide profits to their providers, I'm sure that most don't invest sufficient resources to be able to do so, but that's a technical issue, not an underlying insurmountable roadblock.

            But again, my point is even if one has impeccable data analysis or writing skills, that's not going to be enough.

            •  did you get your education through correspondence? (0+ / 0-)

              it's not the raw information, but the interaction, explanation, debate and feedback that trains people how to think, analyze, and express themselves. watching a youtube lecture is not a substitute for a professional educator teaching a student in real time, with two-way communication.

    •  Indeed (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ferg, chuckvw, The Jester

      Try getting in the door at most large engineering companies without the paper.

      I would not have been able to apply for my current position per internal company rules without my MS.

      Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

      by blue aardvark on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 11:20:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed, however.... for engineering/science (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blue aardvark

        ... I wouldn't recommend taking a job at a fortune 500 as an entry level job at all.

        Start ups and small/medium companies you are much more likely to have the opportunity to spread you wings and fly. You are likely to have more responsibility and greater opportunity to express your skills.

        That's how I started, after CO-OP'ing at Raytheon during college, I went to a start up and never looked back.

        The problem with HR and procurement at giant corporations is they are so big they can't do the kind of 1-on-1 recruiting that lets you ferret out the real gems from the chaff.... regardless of "paper".

        I can't tell you how many empty headed diploma holders Ive run across as software and electronics engineers.

        How about, right now in front of me, write up code to calculate the square root. Or bias a transistor.

        You can't imagine how many MS holders I've run across doing hiring, that were completely befuddled.

        Honestly, int he real world, the Nation suffers.... have you noticed the quality of electronics and software these days?

    •  It's funny, one book.... (0+ / 0-)

      was better and teaching me electrical engineering than the rest of U Mass's curriculum.

      Though I took Physics instead, as I went to my first EE class after walking through the Science building and seeing the 10-15 student classes, to sit in my 550 student lecture.

      I changed my major that day, and became a better EE as a Physicist than I ever would have been as an EE.

      The book was called Physical Instrumentation, and was an EE and ME class for scientists, so you'd know how to configure test apparatus for your experiments in "BIG SCIENCE". ;)

      The book taught me the things I needed to land a great startup job, on winter break of senior year, being hired as an "engineer" without a degree, and I never looked back.

      I could NOT land a job at a Fortune 500 without the diploma, though my 3 years of CO-OP with Raytheon makes me a "legacy" with a work history, so I could walk in today and land a job with them diploma-less.

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