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View Diary: What If You Pulled Back the Curtain and Found a Real Wizard? (181 comments)

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  •  I think we have to have ... (10+ / 0-)

    ... chests of purely international communications, TomP, as we do live in a potentially violent world. It is when the international communications become comingled with domestic communications, ah, that's where we have issues. But, then, we also have courts to decide those issues. Technology will probably solve the riddle of Multi-Communications Transactions (that contain foreign communications, but might also have a small component of U.S. Person information comingled), and, who knows, technology might have already solved the problem.

    What I thought was most impressive about the opinion is that the whole system seems to be devised, not with gathering foreign intelligence in mind, but in protecting the rights of Americans. Even the terms used by the Court and the Government were privacy-related, including "minimization," "retention policy" and "targeting" as examples. (And what they meant by targeting was that the Government had to not miss the bullseye of foreign information and mistakenly strike U.S. Person Information.)    

    Rand Paul is to civil liberties as the Disney Channel is to subtle and nuanced acting.

    by Tortmaster on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 08:44:23 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, this likely will happen if not already. (6+ / 0-)
      Technology will probably solve the riddle of Multi-Communications Transactions (that contain foreign communications, but might also have a small component of U.S. Person information comingled), and, who knows, technology might have already solved the problem.
      I would also like to see an adversarial aspect to the FISA court regarding domestic to international communications or practices.   That could be done by providing security clearances to a government agency with a mission to protect privacy interests.  

      If it were only the chests of such communications, I could probably live with it.   Chests of purely domestic communications seem a step too far, although as you point out, it may well be constitututional.  

      The Fourth Amendment has never been interpreted as some folks here seem to view it.  

      Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

      by TomP on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 09:11:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Part of the accommodations made by the (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tortmaster, kharma, TomP

        NSA in response to the ruling is to severely restricts access to chests that are likely to even contain purely domestic communications.  Prior to transfer to the NSA, an analyst needs to evaluate the contents of a chest likely to contain such communications to ensure that no purely domestic communications are contained within.  Upon finding a single instance of such a communication, the chest is to be destroyed.  Or at least that's how I interpreted it.  It's a bit too long to quote but you can find the info on p. 4 of the minimization procedures.

      •  Hmm, on reading further it may all (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tortmaster, kharma, TomP, StrayCat

        get transfered to the NSA first and then segregated into two pools:  one where access is restricted because it may contain purely domestic communications and a more general pool that the broader analyst community can access.  The chests in the restricted pool are evaluated prior to transfer into the general pool.

    •  Well, since it's a felony to have domestic (5+ / 0-)

      communications in the chest - is it not incumbent upon the government to ensure they don't put the wrong stuff in the wrong chest BEFORE they're allowed to act?

      Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

      by bobdevo on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 12:30:51 PM PDT

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      •  And why have the domestic lockbox at (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bobdevo, Tortmaster, kharma

        all?

        Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

        by StrayCat on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 03:56:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  When they knew beforehand it was illegal.... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          StrayCat, Tortmaster, kharma

          and since they have access to virtually unlimited amounts of OUR TAX DOLLARS - how about they follow the fucking rules THEY MADE.

          Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

          by bobdevo on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 05:04:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  StrayCat, it wasn't a "domestic ... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kharma, WB Reeves

          ... lock box." It was supposed to be an international lock box, but the NSA realized that some "US Person Information" had been comingled because of the way it was obtained. This particular procedure in obtaining information grabbed what the Court called Multi-Communications Transactions (MCTs), and bundled up in a few of the MCTs was stray American data. Because of this stray US Person Information, which could include actual content, the Judge said that that lock box must stay closed, even though it did have foreign intelligence in it.

          Rand Paul is to civil liberties as the Disney Channel is to subtle and nuanced acting.

          by Tortmaster on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 10:10:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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