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View Diary: What If You Pulled Back the Curtain and Found a Real Wizard? (181 comments)

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  •  Those are real questions. (11+ / 0-)

    i do think there is a difference, however, between government collections to which the 4th Amendment applies, and for which there is at least a policy argument based on privacy even if it is constitutional, and provate companies.  There could be civil liability if such data was used outside the purposes of the company.    

    The security/privacy debate also is a real one.  I agree that another attack would have the affect of shutting down much of the debate.

    I agree that the issues are not as simple as some see them.  

    Separating out real debate and discussion, as has been in this thread and diary, from theoutrage and flame wars is useful.  

    in the real world, you can't hide rate those who disagree with you and you can't convince people after calling them names.

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 10:17:31 AM PDT

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    •  Absolutely (13+ / 0-)

      there's a difference between government collections and private companies, for the reasons you state. My question is are we comfortable with the 1% in this country having all the meta data? Is there an issue of balance between the two here?

      And yes, agree this thread has been refreshing. If you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend Akadjian's current rec list diary, one of the most excellent diaries I've read here, and so pertinent to everything that's been going on here for months.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 11:14:22 AM PDT

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      •  Agree wholeheartedly. He should be a front pager (7+ / 0-)
      •  No, we should not be comfortable at all. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        StellaRay, Tortmaster, kharma

        The misuse of our information is endemic.  However, it will require Congress to provide for contractual and legal protection for us.  It could be done if most Congress persons weren't bought and paid for by the likes of Verizon and ComCast.

        Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

        by StrayCat on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 04:01:40 PM PDT

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        •  Exactly. (5+ / 0-)

          And that's my point too. While I think the NSA issues are deeply concerning, I also see that the collection of data is so omnipresent in our society that is overwhelming to me.

          Seems to me that what this country always supports is the profit motive, hence the lack of concern or anger as to the degree that companies track us. Because it is ASSUMED, it's just about selling product.

          But like I said, in these days of Citizens United when you increasingly have those who make a lot of profit using that money to influence politics, and perhaps that data too, then that's a concern.

          And to the extent that you see a balance between government and private business, how should the government compete?

          Which is NOT to say that it's OK for the government to abuse civil liberties, which are more strongly protected for us in the area of the 4th amendment where the government is concerned, than they are regarding our lives as consumers. It's just that those two things are more co-mingled than ever.

          "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

          by StellaRay on Thu Aug 22, 2013 at 04:48:10 PM PDT

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