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View Diary: I don't blame President Obama anymore (part II: Manning sentence & Bush/Cheney immunity) (38 comments)

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  •  I think this attempted with occupy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JesseCW, FishOutofWater

    which was brutally suppressed nationwide.

    "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -- JC, Matthew 6:24

    by Chi on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 02:50:01 AM PDT

    •  this is nonsense. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      exlrrp, ballerina X, Gary Norton

      Occupy was a bunch of primarily middle-class college-age idealists with an initially useful message of economic inequality that

      a. didn't really DO anything   and
      b. let a bunch of idiots drive a 'fuck the establishment/fuck the police' message.

      If it were a movememt with any real internal power, the police breakups would have strengthened not weakened the resolve.

      To be really honest, a large proportion of people involved in the Occupy protests had it just fine--they were just cause hunting.  Nothing was REALLY on the line for them.

      This wasn't true at the beginning--at the beginning it had some really good potential.

      I supported it for about 2 months before I realized it had turned into a joke.

      •  It's easy to criticize a movement (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        from afar . . .

        I think you are much too critical.  Can you give alternatives?  Are you working on any yourself?

        I'm not meaning to be impertinent or rude, but this is something we all must ask ourselves before we rant at each other because we don't like the way we are acting or not acting.

        •  I think the most effective governances is at the (0+ / 0-)

          local level--OWS didn't do that.  I support what and who I can locally (well, I just moved to Spain 3 days ago, so I'm sort of out of commission now--although Spain's economic problems are 10 times worse than ours, so once I figure out what's going on here maybe I'll participate as well)

          But after speaking with a lot of participants in the OWS movement, and supporting it at the beginning, I realized before too long that much of the public face of it didn't represent my core beliefs.

          •  The most corrupt governance is at the local level (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            prfb, AaronInSanDiego

            Drop in on a meeting of your town's Chamber of Commerce ... well, odds are "you can't".

            And while you CAN attend meetings of the County Legislature, and even some of its committees, occasionally -- it becomes clear, in short order, that the votes were bargained, sold and counted long before the meeting was called to order.

            Yes I know Thomas Jefferson favored "wards" as the most democratic and important level of government ... of course he also favored Militias for national defense,  lotteries for raising governmental revenue, and slave labor for raising crops.

            Basically, the smaller the government, the more it is given to domination by Personal Networks-- and the lower  the selling price when "someone" (like Walmart) wants something (like zoning concessions and infrastructure improvements.)

            And when a national government is small enough ... what do you get?  Sicily !   Beautiful countryside --  And not nearly as "feudal" as it once was.  But ...

            In fact, one of OWSs greatest weaknesses was the "Direct Democracy," which sounds wonderful in theory ... and in practice, OWS is very much to be commended for developing  structures that short circuited the tendency of "consensus government' to be dominated by "crypto-cadres" of irresponsible "non-Leaders."

            •  sure, local politics can be corrupt. It can also (0+ / 0-)

              be less so--particularly where the community is heavily involved.  But that's where change is effectively installed--where do you think the obscene creationist school boards are coming from?  We can play that game too--but for the right reasons.  National governance is horribly stagnant.

            •  That's my experience with local governance, too. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              Good luck getting your foot in the door, because the powers-that-be/first families have matters in a headlock.

              All important decisions at "public" meetings were settled at the donut shoppe yesterday.

      •  In your rant about twitter shouldn't you include (0+ / 0-)

        Daily Kos diaries as well?

        If work was a good thing, the rich would have it all and not let you do it. -- Elmore Leonard

        by voroki on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:45:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Gee do you think its possible that people who (0+ / 0-)

        are actually struggling might be too busy working every fucking hour they can to make ends meet to protest?

        If work was a good thing, the rich would have it all and not let you do it. -- Elmore Leonard

        by voroki on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:46:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  the movement wasn't about those struggling. (0+ / 0-)

          It was about the middle class.

          OWS, just like most causes celebres that we have on the left, really aren't about the working poor as much as we would like to believe.  NO ONE represents the American underclasses.  Not here, not in the democratic party, nowhere.   You know who did?  John Edwards--too bad about him , though.  And Pope Francis.    But not us, and not OWS.

    •  also before using hyperbolic terms like (9+ / 0-)

      'brutally suppressed nationwide', please see the Middle East/North Africa for perspective.

      That is what is called 'brutal suppression'.

      Incidents of, say, pepper spraying UC Davis students falls under the category of 'some cops are just plain assholes and some police departments need to relax'.

      The fact that no one died in many months of protests numbering in the hundreds of thousands--even when certain occupations were broken up-- is testament to a stable and functioning democracy.  Not the 'police state' exaggerations that people like to invent to get attention and recommendations on a blog.

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