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View Diary: New historical analogy from Calgary Cruz raises questions about Canadian educational system (94 comments)

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  •  Any time I hear (8+ / 0-)

    the name of the "Founding Fathers" invoked, I always wonder which "Founding Fathers".  There were two very different factions among them, and they split probably 50-50 on the question of federalism.  They did manage to dial down the rhetoric a little, and even agreed on several key points -- most notably the "Wall of Separation" between church and state.

    None of them, however, as far as I know ever remembered the Alamo.

    I also frequently wonder how many, if any, of our members of Congress have ever read a history book.  As fond as they are of citing historical precedent, you would like to think they had some grounding in the subject.  But more and more I find myself losing confidence in that assumption.

    I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

    by mojo11 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 01:13:27 PM PDT

    •  Jefferson and Hamilton were about as diametrically (4+ / 0-)

      opposed as could be. But as Tom always said: "The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a musket is a good guy with an uzi or a Kalashnikov. So let's put in the second amendment.

      Leviticus: “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself"

      by TofG on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 01:19:13 PM PDT

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      •  Wasn't that Madison? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eyesbright

        Jefferson was in France while the Constitution was percolating, and it had already been ratified by the time he came back.  He wasn't real happy at the way it turned out either.

        But yeah, he and Hamilton and he and Adams had ... words.

        I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

        by mojo11 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 01:30:50 PM PDT

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      •  In my last year of high school, we studied (6+ / 0-)

        Americn history and got a thorough grounding in Jeffersonian v. Hamiltonian Democracy.  Too bad that happened in Ontario fifty year ago rather than today in the U.S.

        Sorry.  Quite frequently I comment on my Ontario high school education and compare it favorably to American education.  I can't help myself, sometimes, because I find it hard to believe how much better my education about American history and government was than what so many Americans seem to be learning.  Esp. in Texas.  

        We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

        by Observerinvancouver on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 02:20:39 PM PDT

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        •  And how much do Americans know about Canada? (0+ / 0-)

          About as much as they know about Argentina, Uruguay, and Brazil having a war against poor little Paraguay, or Peru and Bolivia having a war against victorious Chile.
          We'd be far better off without the American Revolution, we'd all be Canadians!  And without the American Revolution the beastly French Revolution wouldn't have happened.

          They that have power to hurt, and will do none

          by richardvjohnson on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 04:34:01 PM PDT

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          •  I can't believe you're serious about the (0+ / 0-)

            American and French Revolutions.

            And I bet there are very few Canadians outside grad school who know much South American history.  At least I know all those countries are in South America.  :)

            We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

            by Observerinvancouver on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 04:47:03 PM PDT

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            •  Sorry, just reading about the French Revolution (0+ / 0-)

              from the aristocratic-victim side...but don't you think the US would be better off as part of Canada, or do you think we would just drag you down?
              I wasn't suggesting Canadians know more about Latin America than US citizens, just that US citizens know practically zero about Canada while Canadians know quite a lot about the US.

              They that have power to hurt, and will do none

              by richardvjohnson on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 03:03:53 AM PDT

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              •  I just posed your question to my husband. He (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                richardvjohnson

                said, "No thanks.  We've already got Quebec".  

                Seriously, I think the U.S. would have chafed as part of a British colony.  The Brits learned a few lessons fom the American Revolution but they still ruled their Canadian colonies with a heavy (although more benign) hand.  You all are too impatient to go through the incremental process of Canadian nationhood.  The country was created in 1867 but was not finally freed from lingering remnants of British control until the Statute of Westminster in about 1930  Our founding document is  the British North America Act.   It was not patriated to Canada until 1982 (I think).   Before then it was merely an act of the British Parliament.  

                As to the second part of your question, given what's happening in the U.S. now, yes you would drag us down.  You'd still be gun crazy even without a Second Amendment.  Too many of you reject the reality based community, from promoting "creation science" to rejecting real science in all its forms.  

                The Canadian motto is "Peace order and good govenment", not "no government".   We believe in using government to deal with problems.  We are superb at compromise.  

                And then there is the difference in our medical systems!  My medical problems since last July read like something from "The Perils of Pauline".  If we lived in the U.S., even with great medical insurance we'd be close to bankrupt due to co-pays, etc.  Here, our out of pocket expenses were pretty minimal.

                Sorry to go on so much.  There are many wonderful things about the U.S. and Canada certainly has its flaws.

                We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

                by Observerinvancouver on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 08:54:04 AM PDT

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          •  A good point. (0+ / 0-)

            In fact, it's possible that Americans know more about some of South America than they do about Canada.

            I'm not convinced we get to take credit for the French Revolution though.  That happened before the US went around inserting itself into everybody else's business by default.

            I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

            by mojo11 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 06:35:38 AM PDT

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            •  This is why we get credit for the French Rev: (0+ / 0-)

              it was helping us win our Revolution that bankrupted the French monarchy and set the process moving that resulted in their Revolution.  I'm sure they didn't do it for altruism but in order to stick it to the British who had just taken Quebec and India from them within the previous 50 years, but we wouldn't have won without their help.

              They that have power to hurt, and will do none

              by richardvjohnson on Sun Aug 25, 2013 at 06:15:33 AM PDT

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    •  Hmmm (2+ / 0-)
      I also frequently wonder how many, if any, of our members of Congress have ever read a history book.
      Well, I suppose Regnery publishes some "history" books.

      The more people I encounter, the more I appreciate our cats.

      by Old Sailor on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 01:23:08 PM PDT

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    •  Not only did they not read, but they apparently (0+ / 0-)

      were high on something during high-school American History and Civics classes...

      They that have power to hurt, and will do none

      by richardvjohnson on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 04:31:13 PM PDT

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      •  Well... to be fair... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        richardvjohnson

        So were (ahem) some of us. (It was the 70s, what can I say?)  But it's not like the information isn't out there now.

        I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

        by mojo11 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 06:30:00 AM PDT

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