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View Diary: Regarding rec-listed diaries by front-pagers... (52 comments)

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  •  That's useful info (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pdxteacher, kurt

    since I think most of we "little people" figure that most front-pagers' posts are destined for the front page regardless of community input.

    That said, given how rare it is that a non-front-pager's post ends up on the front page (proportionally), it seems that use of the rec'd diaries functionality of the site might not fully serve the FP and non-FP folks.

    Can you provide any additional insight about how rec-listing affects an accepted front-pager's posts versus those by a non-front-pager, and perhaps about how this affects the likelihood of a post appearing on the FP?  I ask through ignorance, knowing that many of we irregular posters / commentors have little knowledge of what amounts to a FP diary.

    You think it's hot? Imagine what it would be like if global warming really existed!

    by JSc on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 07:37:29 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Something about posts by FPers vs not (8+ / 0-)

      is that FPers have consented to have our posts copy-edited, we follow a stylebook, etc.  So it weighs in the decision about FPing something by a community member is that if it would require a lot of copy-editing or stylebooking, we don't want to do that without asking.  And on a day when things are moving fast, that can be a fairly big barrier, asking and waiting to hear back and so on.

      Rec-listing is only one of a number of factors in whether an FP writer's post will be FP'd, because there are certainly some things that we feel it's important to highlight regardless, and there are things that share really well without having gotten a lot of comments or recs, showing that they're appealing to an audience that isn't necessarily registered at/participating directly in the site but that we still value reaching (definitely things that I write fall into that category). But for sure, if something an FPer writes gets a big response from the community, that's a factor.

      •  A freeping style book for bloggers? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bleeding blue, Polly Syllabic

        Broderism lives. Editing is one thing but stylebooks are so pre-internet.

        Thanks for the inside info.

        look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

        by FishOutofWater on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 08:01:26 PM PDT

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      •  Also useful info.... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        serendipityisabitch, kurt

        Might it be useful to the overall community to include a FAQ about the difference between FP folks and the rest of the community?

        Based on a few of the comments to this point, it seems that the DKos community (myself included) don't fully understand the role of recs re: FP folks versus the rest of the community.

        I don't think posting equations has any immediate value, but a general sense of "how things work" perhaps might not be bad.

        You think it's hot? Imagine what it would be like if global warming really existed!

        by JSc on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 08:03:55 PM PDT

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      •  Thanks for explaining the copy-editing. (0+ / 0-)

        I wish more Kossacks' truly newsworthy & well-written diaries got front-paged. It's such a kind thing to do, a real affirmation that that person is contributing value to our whole conversation.

        It's nice for front-pagers, that your work can be recced up by the community, so you know when you've been heard loud and clear.

        It does feel greedy to me, when I see an FPer's diary ride the rec list for a whole day . . . and then I see it again on the Front Page, three days later. I know you have a queue system, but I think hugely popular FPer diaries might supersede it?

        So that, if one of your diaries got to the top of the rec list, it would pop straight onto the Front Page, and free up space for another Kossack's diary on the rec list.

        "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

        by Brecht on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 05:16:52 AM PDT

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        •  Good idea, (3+ / 0-)

          Unless an FPer diary has a meta or community tag.

          Markos' recent rec list diary about site rules, for example, should not be on the FP, right? We don't need to completely advertise that we can't get along with each other more than we already do.

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 08:41:38 AM PDT

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        •  We also try, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Brecht, Meteor Blades

          if there's a reclisted diary on a subject where we're posting something ourselves, to include a link to it.  But again that's where, if we queued our post hours before it goes up, we might not have noticed/remembered to do it in a way that's relevant when the post actually hits the FP.  

          It's a constant balancing act, and remember that on a busy day, I may not even realize one of my posts has hit the reclist and I assume it's the same for others. Because you write it, you hit publish, and move to the next story.

          •  I get the balancing act. You see the production (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pdxteacher

            from the inside, so you have more sense of all the factors that make up the sausage machine. When you're working on new stories - and living in the real world - you don't have time to keep tweaking and tending your older diaries.

            Daily Kos is my favorite website. Because of the quality of the work, and the richness of the community conversation. You FPers do sterling work. As a progressive, I'm glad we have you as a full-time Labor Editor.

            In terms of the balance, I find a lot of the excellence of Daily Kos comes from the richness of the community conversation. The formatting of the conversation (including how diary streams, topical groups, tags and following, support and organize the conversation) is very well-designed; and years of that have allowed an interesting, committed community to grow.

            Meteor Blades has always been so involved and aware of this enormous conversation, and most of the Front Pagers keep their hand in too. elfling seems to be pretty up on the state of DKos, day to day. But I don't think Daily Kos will ever go wrong, by putting more resources (time, energy, attention) into supporting all the contributions of the little people.

            Sadly, we haven't managed to clone MB yet. But giving elfling more support staff for moderating, and keeping an eye on the community, is a wise investment. If someone on staff was in charge of watching the Front Page queue, and copy-editing and Front Paging Kossack stories that eloquently address the issues FPers haven't managed to cover, that would help the little people feel that their voices sometimes carry all the way to the Front Page.

            Yes, "it's a constant balancing act". But any way of including more community voice, while actually improving the quality of Daily Kos product, is worth some effort and expense.

            And thanks. You guys are balancing pretty well already.

            "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

            by Brecht on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 09:57:27 AM PDT

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            •  Yeah, MB is fantastic that way. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Brecht, Meteor Blades

              Speaking for me, I came out of the comments here. For whatever reason, now that writing here is a full-time thing, there are days when going into the comments feels really overwhelming -- very difficult especially during the flow of the workday, and then after work I'm not necessarily online as much. I don't know why the former is and wish I could better emulate MB as an active participant in the ongoing discussions that are what kept me here for so long. When it doesn't feel too overwhelming or when I'm online after hours/on weekends, I try to dive in. But frankly one of the reasons, as I think about it, that it's hard to do that is that even when I'm just speaking for myself, there's always the concern that I'll be read as speaking for more than just me. In a conversation like this, for instance! I keep having to pause and think about what I should and shouldn't be saying.

              However much we do or don't comment, though, there's no sense of community members as "the little people." Obviously I'm going to say that, but in this case it's true. Especially, I think, because so many of us spent years in the diaries and comments ourselves and, writing for the FP now, feel keenly that it's less that we've changed than that our task and our types of interaction have changed.

              •  I'm sorry the commenting's gotten harder for you, (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Laura Clawson

                with less time and more responsibility.

                I used to read so many books. So I got into R&BLers. Now that I'm writing a serious book diary every week, I find less time to read books, and only read a book if I see a diary at the other end. Your situation's more 24x7, but I surely empathize.

                there are days when going into the comments feels really overwhelming . . .frankly one of the reasons, as I think about it, that it's hard to do that is that even when I'm just speaking for myself, there's always the concern that I'll be read as speaking for more than just me. In a conversation like this, for instance!
                Indeed. My first thought, seeing you in this particular diary, was: I'm glad there's a Front Pager here to represent.

                It's probably easier when you're talking with Kossacks you've known for years, because you know they have a sense of you as a person, not a figurehead.

                And the figurehead is good. It's great that there is so much human face to Daily Kos. Whenever you do represent, just showing up in comments is a community service.

                If I were in your shoes, and felt constrained, I'd mostly just go with it, like a town councillor talking in a diner. If I found a diary where I didn't feel like representing, and purely wanted to chat as myself, the subject line of my first comment would read "Off the record." In that diary, apart from being civil, I'd feel free to say what I liked.

                there's no sense of community members as "the little people."
                Alas, you don't have to condescend for it to feel that way. Not to me, personally - I'm convinced that I'm a rather splendid fellow, and anybody's equal. But to many in the community, you just are one of "the big people." Though it's very good for morale that even kos can take a joke, and that Bob Johnson plays court jester so well.

                Didn't mean to write so much. Fine with me if you reply with two lines, or zero. You've already done enough, just by showing up and listening.

                "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                by Brecht on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 06:37:17 PM PDT

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      •  When I rec an FPer's diary in the recent list (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Brecht

        and then see it later on the front page, I've noticed that my earlier rec has disappeared. It seems if I want my rec to stick, I have to wait until the diary gets to the FP and then rec it, if I think it deserves to stay on the rec list beyond its normal FP lifetime. Is it a bug? Anyhow I gave up recommending FPer diaries until they show up on the FP.

        •  I rec them on the recent list if they're breaking, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kurt

          or superb. I never rec them on the rec list. I rec them on the Front Page if they're very good.

          "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

          by Brecht on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 02:14:08 PM PDT

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