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View Diary: To Twerk or not to Twerk (51 comments)

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  •  ... seriously? (1+ / 0-)
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    So she's being slut shamed. Isn't  that what she was going for?
    Would you care to reexamine that question?
    •  If I am (1+ / 0-)
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      reading figbash correctly, I believe him/her to be saying, essentially, "She wanted to create a lot of attention, and she succeeded at that."

      •  I believe that was probably the intent (0+ / 0-)

        and that's exactly the problem: that "wanting to draw attention" or even "wanting to shock people" is being equated with "asking to be slut-shamed."

        •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

          Well ... I guess it is a little circular maybe. It is hard to shock people (if that is your goal) if they don't have a particular opinion that you are butting up against, if that makes sense. If people think it is just fine for you to do it, then nobody is going to be shocked and you aren't going to get as much attention.

          I would tend to doubt that she is offended by whatever slut shaming may be occurring, because as they say there is no such thing as bad publicity; but perhaps I am too cynical.

          •  You may be right in that doubt (1+ / 0-)

            but keep in mind that slut-shaming a public figure doesn't just affect her; it affects everybody who hears it.  It tells girls and women that they should expect the same treatment if they behave/dress/dance that way, and it tells boys and men that girls and women who behave/dress/dance that way are fair game.

            I do agree with you that it's hard to shock people without finding a public moré and stomping on it, but there's two kinds of deliberate shock: there's the kind that amounts to "look at me, I'm so transgressive and naughty!" and there's the kind that amounts to "look at how shocked you are by this harmless thing, isn't that stupid?"  A lot of shock art is some combination of the two.  (And actually I've just thought of a third kind, which amounts to "look at this horrible thing you've been comfortably ignoring, isn't it horrible?" but I don't think that's relevant in this case.)  I don't know which kind Miley Cyrus was going for, assuming that she was deliberately going for shock in the first place.

    •  No. I stand by it. (0+ / 0-)

      What the hell did she expect? To be held up as a fcking role model for 15 year olds? Actually, expect she probably enjoyed every minute of it. Rachet girl!

      Inspiration is hard to come by. You have to take it where you find it. --- Bob Dylan.

      by figbash on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 10:28:26 AM PDT

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      •  ... you are probably not doing this on purpose (1+ / 0-)
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        but when what we are talking about is slut-shaming, which essentially involves perpetuating the meme that women who express their sexuality in unapproved ways are worthless and fair game for any ill-treatment?

        And when your comment on that problem starts with "isn't that what she was going for" and continues through "what the hell did she expect" and "she probably enjoyed every minute of it"?

        Are you sure you want to stand by that?

        •  What I stand by is that Miley Cyrus's (1+ / 0-)
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          Batya the Toon

          performance was so over-the-top that she should not be surprised that a lot of people - yeah, old people like me - found it painful to watch.

          She has either been sucked into the vortex of the sickening celebrity culture that is coursening our public dialogue or has willingly entered it. She wasn't just showing off her titties and baring a little extra ass, she was basically masturbating on stage. Now, if you find that entertaining then I don't know what to say. It advances nothing and enriches nothing but the pockets of those who exploit these young women.... that old 1% again.

          You apparently don't think her performance could be described as slutty? Please tell me what would be, then?

          This is the best we can do? What our young people should aspire to? I don't get it. Just like I said. I really don't. I am a female and was called a slut in my day for my dress, but I did nothing remotely like this. Yeah, bumpin' and grindin' has been around forever, just not put out there for teenagers as something to look up too.

          Nice having a civil conversation with you as I'm really scratching my head over all this and would like to know what it is you are defending here.  Thanks!

          Inspiration is hard to come by. You have to take it where you find it. --- Bob Dylan.

          by figbash on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 11:41:18 AM PDT

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          •  I don't find it entertaining at all (1+ / 0-)
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            and indeed I find it kinda distasteful.  Which is why I didn't watch it.  I don't feel any need to judge her on any level beyond that of my personal taste, or to say that she shouldn't be doing what she's doing because I wouldn't enjoy watching it.

            You apparently don't think her performance could be described as slutty? Please tell me what would be, then?
            This is exactly my point.  Nothing should be described as slutty, ever.  The word "slut" and its derivatives reflect an attitude that says everybody is entitled to judge women for expressing any aspect of their sexuality, and that women who are judged to be sluts (a) should be made to feel ashamed of it, and (b) do not deserve respect on any level.

            You shouldn't have been called slutty when you were younger, and for the exact same reasons, Miley shouldn't be called slutty now.  Not because I approve of her behavior, or because I think anybody else should approve of it, but because I think everybody needs to stop acting like our approval or disapproval of her behavior should matter.

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