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View Diary: Kerry expected to sharpen criticism of Syrian regime in statement today. Intervention seems likely (377 comments)

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  •  If any intervention occurs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg, cocinero

    And I am not advocating it, it's gonna look a whole lot like Libya, not Iraq.

    I really can't see the US going solo.  It's gonna be with UN approval, or at least with significant support from Europe and the Gulf States.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 10:54:59 AM PDT

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    •  The support of the United Kingdom (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Empty Vessel, marsanges, greenbell

      is not enough.

      If we can't get a "broad coalition" of western democracies who are prepared to put their resources into any action, then it will just be seen as an American solution.

      America has proven, time and again, that it does not have any solutions.

      If France, Germany, Canada, Australia, and the UK line up alongside the United States, and they have the support of the major players in the region, then fine.

      We can then go get Congressional approval for limited intervention.

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      Who is twigg?

      by twigg on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 10:59:43 AM PDT

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      •  Absolutely agreed. (0+ / 0-)

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 11:02:37 AM PDT

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      •  Germany will NOT. (0+ / 0-)

        no chance. Election coming up. German hypocrisy at its deepest.

        so France might be on board, but on a board with Cameron?? Doubtful.

        •  According to the Post (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cocinero, Just Bob

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

          The United States has been consulting with its allies about possible responses, and on Monday the foreign ministers of Britain, France and Turkey said in separate radio interviews that they would be prepared to back U.S. action outside the parameters of a United Nations mandate
          Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told the Turkish Milliyet daily newspaper that more than 35 nations are considering joining the United States in taking action against Syria, and that Turkey was among them.
        •  German hypocrisy? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marsanges, chuckvw, Tweedledee5

          I'm not saying there isn't, but how is choosing not to intervene evidence of hypocrisy?

          And incidentally, there is a huge irony that after three decades of US foreign policy decisions that have been rife with hypocrisy, that any citizen of this country could comment with a clear conscience on the hypocrisy of other nations.

          A proud member of the Professional Left since 1967.

          by slatsg on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 12:01:44 PM PDT

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          •  self criticism :) (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lawrence, slatsg

            I´m actually a German citizen. course you cant know this. I said hypocrisy because I know well enough that just before an election, noone will want to waken the troubles of having a german military involved in soemthing that could be seen as an adventure. They´ll be content to let others do it and given like Merkel is I´m sure she´d rather pay to be left out of it. (A model with tradition). She could only lose by this. Just maybe, if it goes through NATO, they might agree to support roles in hte wider mediterranean. But nowhere near where its hot and where a german soldier could get killed or could actually kill someone inconvenient.

            if it turns out different I would be very surprised (and not necessarily pleased).

        •  Germany has its patriot missiles ready in (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marsanges

          the South of Turkey. Their number could be increased.

          Several ships of the German Marine are in the Mediterreanean Sea, one of them is for example this one:  "Spy-Ship Oker

          Spy-Ship - DI30031-20120819

          Germany could deploy special vehicles that can detect chemical weapons.

          They also have jet fighters who can help to fill up other fighter jets with fuel.

          I doubt that Merkel would resist demands from the US and other NATO nations to engage and help in the mission.  They will muddle along with "some support" and avoid to be the ones who "shoot sharp".  Yeah.
          what else is new. Always the same "Spiel".

          Civil Men Are For Civil Rights

          by mimi on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 12:57:45 PM PDT

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          •  that is a nice volcano! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mimi

            Yes, yes. If that is all the US wants as cover to go it essentially alone, the Germans would give it. Yet I doubt it.

            > a real intervention would require much more;
            > noone wants a repeat of the Libya with all its unexpected and disastrous knock-on consequences;
            > just a quick shoot for the gallery would be good for American morals, but help noone, as everyone understands, and the Germans would surely nod it off.  

    •  The news today suggests strongly that we are (8+ / 0-)

      going to act with the support of a number of allies, but without UN approval.  That's more or less what Hagel said this morning.

      Sounds a lot like Iraq to me.

      The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

      by lysias on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 11:15:16 AM PDT

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      •  Perhaps (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cocinero, Lawrence, Tweedledee5, NYFM

        But the problem with the UN is Russia, who back Syria.

        Basically, the question comes down to how large the coalition is.  Is it the bullshit Iraq war coalition, or the more broad based Libya coalition.

        I don't know, but I suspect Obama ain't gonna do shit without a serious coalition of Europe and the gulf states.  

        I will not support anything without that broad coalition, and I might not even support if he does get that coalition, but I will consider it.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 11:21:58 AM PDT

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      •  A "coalition of the willing" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tweedledee5, lysias

        Just like Iraq and almost as smart.

        You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

        by Johnny Q on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 01:10:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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