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View Diary: NYPD Worse Than the Feds/NSA? No: Just Ahead of the Curve... (21 comments)

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  •  New York City has suffered attack, twice. (2+ / 0-)
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    blueoasis, Kombema

    Pearl Harbor only got attacked once.

    How long has it been since Baltimore or Washington been attacked? The US Civil War notwithstanding.

    Stop and Frisk is not about stopping terrorists and needs to stop on account of being ineffective.

    •  It's all part and parcel to the same overreach, (11+ / 0-)

      unfortunately, nation-wide. When the CIA is part of an investigation of Occupy, and the FBI and local police departments profiling and violating the rights of not just Muslim Americans, but minority communities as part of the fused War on Drugs and War on Terrorism, something's wrong.

      I can't imagine you're signing off on Ray Kelly's tactics, beyond your criticism of stop and frisk, are you? Spying in New Jersey without authorization, installation of warrantless surveillance equipment in NYC mosques, etc.?

      "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

      by Kombema on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 03:50:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If you were Mayor of NYC or Governor of NY (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        or POTUS what would you do in the face of an obvious repeated threat?

        •  Real terrorism prevention involves profiling (14+ / 0-)

          behaviors, rather than demographic profiles or entire groups, as the Israelis long ago discovered. This ham-handed blanket surveillance and Constitutional violations backfires by sewing mistrust and poor relations with the respective communities -- whether terrorism OR crime/drug related prevention.

          The threat is never going away, but much of what is being done is not just ineffective, but it's also counterproductive and un-Constitutional. Far better to promote trusting relations with people, from whom good community intel can emerge. The militarization of civilian policing -- and the confusion of everyday crime with terrorism, wastes money, and social trust, criminalizing society in general rather than targeting those actually most threatening to society.

          With any luck we'll find out what a new, less authoritarian mayor will do very soon.

          "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

          by Kombema on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:05:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The same thing that was done (7+ / 0-)

          after the first attack, follow the law, not criminalize every Muslim in NYC, turn the NYPD into Mayor Bloomberg's private army and then use it to silence legitimate protest with abusive tactics. This is NYC not some third world country or Russia.

          "Information is power. But like all power there are those who want to keep it for themselves" Aaron Swartz, 1986 - 2013

          by TheMomCat on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:30:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's tremendously short-sighted, and a big fail (5+ / 0-)

            on every level. Aside from being immoral and unfair, and un-Constitutional, it also doesn't work -- thus failing on even a practical level. Three strikes.

            Hope a new mayor both pushes back against Kelly's Third World militarized policing, and cooperates with what I hope is a DoJ investigation of the many horrifying practices and events that have occurred. You don't need to run rough-shod over the Constitution to prevent terrorism -- or common crime.

            There was a diary recently about an NYPD assault of a homeless guy and the judge who tried to intervene. That's the level of arrogance and authoritarianism that has to be checked in a still-purportedly democratic society.

            "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

            by Kombema on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:45:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  It's the authoritarian mindset of people like... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Kombema, TheMomCat, aliasalias

            Ray Kelly who drank the Cheney kool-aid and now live, eat and breathe the malevolent philosophy of his dreaded "one-percent-doctrine."

            Unfortunately, the former vice president was not only the worst vice president of modern times... he was also the most influential.

            'Cuz freedom can't protect itself ~~ EFF ~ EPIC ~ ACLU

            by markthshark on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 04:59:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  He was the chickeniest of the Chicken Hawks, too (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              markthshark, TheMomCat, NearlyNormal

              A draft-evading Darth Vader wannabe.

              "Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

              by Kombema on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 05:13:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  getting deferments 5 times while supporting (0+ / 0-)

                the war(s) and that's what makes his 'draft dodging' wrong, not just because he dodged the draft.

                Which is what I did, I was a draft dodger, that's why my children were born in Canada (they're still there too), but I was in protests against the war and I wanted everyone to be a 'draft dodger'.

                without the ants the rainforest dies

                by aliasalias on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 11:19:02 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  The "war on terror" is now "the war on crime"... (17+ / 0-)

      ...and minority communities (moreso urban minority communitiies) are at the top of the list for surveillance and "pre-crime" targeting. This is a pretty widely-publicized and very ugly manifestation of our "war on terror."

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 03:55:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  War on crime is local. (0+ / 0-)

        Detectives in Trenton are trying to stifle the next murder. 31 so far. The next sets an unfortunate record in south rust belt.

      •  All here should read this excellent piece from... (13+ / 0-)

        ...PR Watch, from is outstanding!

        The Homeland Security Apparatus: Fusion Centers, Data Mining and Private Sector Partners
        by Beau Hodai — May 22, 2013 - 7:45am

        This article is an extraction of material contained in "Dissent or Terror: How the Nation's 'Counter Terrorism' Apparatus, in Partnership with Corporate America, Turned on Occupy Wall Street," published by DBA Press and the Center for Media and Democracy.

        Following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, a nationwide "homeland security""counter terrorism" apparatus emerged. Components of this apparatus include the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the National Counterterrorism Center, and state/regional "fusion centers." Fusion centers, by and large, are staffed with personnel working in "counter terrorism" "homeland security" units of municipal, county, state, tribal and federal law enforcement/public safety/"counter terrorism" agencies. To a large degree, the "counter terrorism" operations of municipal, county, state and tribal agencies engaged in fusion centers are financed through a number of U.S. Department of Homeland Security grant programs.

        Initially, fusion centers were intended to be intelligence sharing partnerships between municipal, county, state, tribal and federal law enforcement/"counter terrorism" agencies, dedicated solely to the dissemination/sharing of "terrorism"-related intelligence. However, shortly following the creation of fusion centers, their focus shifted from this exclusive interest in "terrorism," to one of "all hazards"-- an umbrella term used to describe virtually anything (including "terrorism") that may be deemed a "hazard" to the public, or to certain private sector interests. And, as has been mandated through a series of federal legislative actions and presidential executive orders, fusion centers (and the "counter terrorism" entities that they are comprised of) work-- in ever closer proximity-- with private corporations, with the stated aim of protecting items deemed to be "critical infrastructure/key resources."

        This article examines the genesis and evolution of the nation's "homeland security"/"counter terrorism" apparatus, as well as the integration of corporate interests in that apparatus...

        "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

        by bobswern on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 03:58:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The World Trade Center was targeted. That was not (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kombema, lostinamerica

      a happenstance. Free trade, like "free market," is a euphemism for exploitation -- for exacting and extracting and exporting and extorting and leaving nothing but a mess behind.
      Perhaps people directed by ulterior motives cannot accept at face value what someone says.
      Free trade backed up by military force is no longer acceptable in the 21st Century. Some people seem to have forgot that the U.S. set up military bases in Central Asia to protect some pipelines.
      Anybody remember Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo? That was the prototype for the permanent bases that were slated to be constructed in Iraq. Obama/Biden abandoned that endeavor, but the foothold in Afghanistan is harder to give up. After all, there's still the "resurgent Russia" and the "rising China" to be worried about.

      The problem with ulterior motives is that it happens that even the principals don't know what they are up to. On the other hand, it's probably just as well that making an example of Iraq to impress Russia and China was never admitted.

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