Skip to main content

View Diary: America as Sparta is a Done Deal. (20 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  But didn't Athens have a democracy? nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CenPhx, inclusiveheart

    Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

    by hestal on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 07:58:46 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, one that forced Socrates to recant his (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      petral, Kevskos, Cofcos, Simplify, CenPhx, Chi

      teachings or kill himself.

      Athenean Democracy: Proving that Tyranny of the Majority is still tyranny, and it may be even dumber.

      "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

      by kirrix on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 08:03:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Socrates supported the tyranny imposed by Sparta. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        petral, inclusiveheart, Chi

        The trial was after the tyranny of the thirty was overthrown.

        Ancient interpretations
        Athens had just come through a difficult period, where a Spartan-supported group, called the Thirty Tyrants had overturned the city's participatory democracy and sought to impose oligarchic rule. The fact that Critias, the leader of the Tyrants, was one of Socrates's pupils was not seen as a coincidence.
        I. F. Stone wrote a great book on this topic. The Trial of Socrates.
        •  But who are the Spartans and (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Chi

          who are the Athenians now?  I think we are the Spartans these days.

          •  Athens was the strongest power in its heyday. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            inclusiveheart, Chi

            Sparta won a war that ended in temporary victory after a plague that may have have been Cholera.

            No one has heard from the Peloponnese, since. The Athenian mob, like the Roman mob, still have power. The American mob is bigger. We are Athens, and I, for one, choose against war.

            •  The parallel is the oligarchs vs. democrats. (0+ / 0-)

              Imposing our views on others.

              Notions that we are "spartan" when really we are a marshmallow people these days.

              •  The people of Athens. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                inclusiveheart

                or the oligarchs of Sparta?

                •  That we come to situations with a spartan (0+ / 0-)

                  and oligarchic attitude when we really aren't all that spartan - disciplined, tough, "together" - ourselves.

                  It is the holier-than-thou, imperialist attitude and heavy-handed responses that we project which is not really the basis of our own lifestyles that I was commenting on.

                  We think of ourselves as this highly-sophisticated and organized society and attempt to impose on and quite openly scold others for not having that life when we really are not leading it ourselves.

                  We keep being Icarus in the Middle East.

      •  Predictable, erroneous comment. nt (0+ / 0-)

        Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

        by hestal on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 08:46:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Care to explain that charge? n/t (0+ / 0-)

          "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

          by kirrix on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 11:17:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site