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View Diary: America as Sparta is a Done Deal. (20 comments)

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  •  Socrates supported the tyranny imposed by Sparta. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    petral, inclusiveheart, Chi

    The trial was after the tyranny of the thirty was overthrown.

    Ancient interpretations
    Athens had just come through a difficult period, where a Spartan-supported group, called the Thirty Tyrants had overturned the city's participatory democracy and sought to impose oligarchic rule. The fact that Critias, the leader of the Tyrants, was one of Socrates's pupils was not seen as a coincidence.
    I. F. Stone wrote a great book on this topic. The Trial of Socrates.
    •  But who are the Spartans and (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chi

      who are the Athenians now?  I think we are the Spartans these days.

      •  Athens was the strongest power in its heyday. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        inclusiveheart, Chi

        Sparta won a war that ended in temporary victory after a plague that may have have been Cholera.

        No one has heard from the Peloponnese, since. The Athenian mob, like the Roman mob, still have power. The American mob is bigger. We are Athens, and I, for one, choose against war.

        •  The parallel is the oligarchs vs. democrats. (0+ / 0-)

          Imposing our views on others.

          Notions that we are "spartan" when really we are a marshmallow people these days.

          •  The people of Athens. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            inclusiveheart

            or the oligarchs of Sparta?

            •  That we come to situations with a spartan (0+ / 0-)

              and oligarchic attitude when we really aren't all that spartan - disciplined, tough, "together" - ourselves.

              It is the holier-than-thou, imperialist attitude and heavy-handed responses that we project which is not really the basis of our own lifestyles that I was commenting on.

              We think of ourselves as this highly-sophisticated and organized society and attempt to impose on and quite openly scold others for not having that life when we really are not leading it ourselves.

              We keep being Icarus in the Middle East.

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