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View Diary: Unfit judge rules rape victim who killed herself 'was as much in control of the situation' as rapist (171 comments)

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  •  Re (1+ / 0-)
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    Nailbanger
    You can be manipulated into having sex against your will psychologically
    While this is trivially true when one party is underage, it is impossible for adults to be similarly 'manipulated', at least in any way that makes legal sense.

    If someone decides to have sex for whatever reason, that's their decision. Period. For adults, both parties saying "yes" is a 100% defense to a charge of sexual misconduct.

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 01:18:53 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  What a load of crap. (8+ / 0-)
      If someone decides to have sex for whatever reason, that's their decision.
      I'm assuming you'll return to your keyboard when you're in a different state, and reconsider that post.

      Politics is about the improvement of people's lives. - Paul Wellstone

      by occams hatchet on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 01:59:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  guess there's no such thing as abuse or coercion. (12+ / 0-)

        we should just wipe those offenses out of our vocabularies.

        Because it could never happen that a boss says, "you will sleep with me or lose your job" to a person who desperately needs the job to provide for a family. So, when that other adult says "yes" to the sex, it is completely impossible for a crime to have been committed. After all, they're both adults.

        And when a person has been the subject of abuse and is psychologically frail and a predatorial "partner" latches on and whittles away at self-esteem on a constant basis, so that there is a "relationship" which the predator controls, no problem. Two adults! Nothing to see here.

        And when a man says to a woman, "if you don't have sex with me, I'll rape your daughter" and she agrees to have sex with him, well, hey, that's an adult decision!

        (Directed at Sparhawk, not occams, by the way.)

        Adults can be victims of abuse, manipulation and coercion, too. Anyone in a vulnerable position is quite susceptible to it.

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        by UnaSpenser on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:15:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Unless there is coercion (0+ / 0-)

      If someone puts a gun to your head, or deliberately drugs you, and you say "yes", it can certainly still be considered non-consensual.  If we're talking about some subtler kind of psychological coercion, that's going to be harder to prove, but if there is real proof of coercion, "yes" may not mean "yes".  The hurdle for proving that is generally relatively high though.  It's like trying to prove that a contract was signed under duress.  

    •  Adults can and are (12+ / 0-)

      manipulated by others without violence.

      - use of date-rape drugs
      - "have sex with me or you lose your job"
      - "have sex with me or I'll forget you paid your rent"

      It is not only a teacher-student relationship that can create this kind of disparity in power.

      You are fortunate not to have much imagination in this area.

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:14:45 PM PDT

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      •  Re (0+ / 0-)
        - use of date-rape drugs
        Find me a case where someone coherently consented after being drugged without their knowledge.
        - "have sex with me or you lose your job"
        This is actually not a crime believe it or not. It's a civil tort that you can sue the offender over. In any case it involves consenting sex.
        - "have sex with me or I'll forget you paid your rent- use of date-rape drugs
        This is extortion which is a crime, but it's the extortion thing that makes it criminal, not the sex aspect.

        The things you mention are various civil and criminal offenses and sleazy behavior, but they are not rape because they involve the consent of both parties. Consent under (nonviolent) duress is still consent!

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 02:37:23 PM PDT

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    •  It doesn't matter the age (4+ / 0-)

      I was 23 when I was coerced into sex against my will.  Rape is rape.  Period.

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