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View Diary: The MIC is not in control (396 comments)

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  •  I think we should note that Pentagon brass (2+ / 0-)
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    blue aardvark, erratic

    are made of soldiers who have seen war. They know what it is because, for the most part, in whatever capacity, they have been there.

    There seems to be a pervasive belief (and I'm not accusing you of this CwV) on the left that Brass wants war. I hear time and again from people how bloodthirsty the Military is and that they chomp at the bit to wage it. Most often this is coming from people who have never served in the armed forces, let alone fought.

    The reality is that no one knows better the risks and damages of military action, and I would suggest that very few in the Military brass is itching for another Middle East conflict.

    MIC does have deep roots in the Pentagon. The doors revolve, obviously. That doesn't mean they have sway when it comes to waging war. That just doesn't comport with the reality of how wars are waged or decisions are made.

    I am not an apologist for what Obama does, I am very unhappy with him and it is no longer enough for me to remind myself he is better that the alternative, though that is still very true. However, we do not know what he knows (I know, this is a tired but true one) and the fact is we do not know what any motivation is at all. It could be pure as the driven snow or dirty as campaign cash, or anything in between. We just do not know, and assigning reasons or motivations is as useful as picking numbers for Powerball. Chances are your guess is wrong.

    The place was utterly dark—the oubliette, as I suppose, of their accursed convent.

    by bastrop on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 08:08:39 AM PDT

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    •  Hm. (14+ / 0-)

      I have known more than a few Admirals who were very gung ho to go into war.  And a lot of them sat behind desks their entire careers.

      There are a lot of REMF's at the pentagon.

      I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

      by trumpeter on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 08:33:06 AM PDT

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      •  Tipped for REMFs! (4+ / 0-)
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        blue aardvark, bastrop, Aspe4, orlbucfan

        Luckily Ex Adm. Fox was realistic Re: Iran and Mullen, also an adm. was very plain that we don't want, can't afford, should not enter another war in the region.
        Dempsey is not real gung ho either. I don't know where Hagel is on this. And they are the people who really count in these matters.

        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

        by CwV on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 08:43:39 AM PDT

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      •  I don't disagree on REMF's at all (1+ / 0-)
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        and you are correct there are those gung ho.

        On the whole, I don't think that's what we are looking at right now after Afghanistan and Iraq.

        CxV below is illustrating my point to some extent in regard to the names mentioned. Hagel has a pretty long record of being cautious, and his statements re: Iraq and Afghanistan should say a lot about this current Pentagon rushing into things (I hope).

        The place was utterly dark—the oubliette, as I suppose, of their accursed convent.

        by bastrop on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 09:23:27 AM PDT

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        •  When you have a hammer in your hand (3+ / 0-)
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          bastrop, Aspe4, orlbucfan

          everything seems to look like a nail.

          First, they need to investigate the CWs to find out where they came from.

          Second, is it really logical to respond to a despicable CW attack by killing more people? Why?

          A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

          by onionjim on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 09:41:17 AM PDT

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      •  REMFs are people too... (1+ / 0-)
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        Or so I've heard.

        I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

        by mojo11 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 09:36:53 AM PDT

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    •  On the contrary, the brass is made up mostly (7+ / 0-)

      of desk jockeys.

      Did you think Petraus had some great war experience? He's par  for the course.

      collards, meat, butter, sourdough, eggs, cheese, raw milk

      by Tirge Caps on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 08:57:17 AM PDT

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      •  No, I had no illusions about Petraus. (0+ / 0-)

        And while you are right, there are plenty of desk jockey's to go around, everyone there at the top has been through the last 10 years, in whatever capacity, and seen the results.

        All I'm saying is this isn't the Bush admin. No one on the civilian side is working to satisfy Obama's blood lust, so there is no incentive from WH to act on those compulsions. Hagel is very cautious. They aren't playing the same game here, IMO.

        The place was utterly dark—the oubliette, as I suppose, of their accursed convent.

        by bastrop on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 09:48:16 AM PDT

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    •  It isn't... (2+ / 0-)
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      orlbucfan, bastrop

      that they are bloodthirsty.  It is that they are largely arrogant that pushes them to advocate for war.  If you have been in the military (I have) you know that the military thinks very highly of itself (this is both good and bad).  They believe that they can accomplish any task put before them and that they are best equipped to end conflicts.

      "[I]n the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone...They're so thirsty for it they'll crawl through the desert toward a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand."

      by cardboardurinal on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 10:17:27 AM PDT

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