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View Diary: POTUS to Close Gun Sale Loophole...Executive-Style (146 comments)

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  •  Good question (5+ / 0-)

    But I don't think there are many Garands left to repatriate these days.  What happened to the ones in Korea?  All that Korean .30-06 surplus ammo was brought back in years ago.  The CMP obviously still has lots of the Greek ammo left.

    To be honest, I don't know why they are targeting milsurps.  Many of those rifles aren't really involved in crimes or deaths.  Someone isn't going to walk into a crowded place and start blazing away with a bolt action Mosin M44.  And many of the old Eastern Bloc pistols are in odd calibers that aren't common or cheap these days.  Makarovs and Tokarevs are much more expensive to shoot and your neighborhood guns shop most likely doesn't carry much 9x18 or 7.62x25.  

    The sequester is the new Republican immigration reform plan. Make things so bad here in the US that no one will want to live here.

    by Mote Dai on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 11:30:33 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  and your neighborhood gun shop carries ZE-RO (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rodentrancher, JesseCW

      7.65 x 53.

      Ask me how I know ...
      they're nearly as hard to find as .22LR.

      To all you RWNJ hoarders out there: ENOUGH already with buying up the .22LR. The DHS doesn't want it. It's not on the list of stuff the Obama administration's considering adding taxes to, either. Quit being greedy!!!!!!!

      (FWIW: after, say, 35 or 40 years in storage? CCI brand .22LR isn't the best stuff to try to shoot at the range. If you're gonna hoard, hoard Federal or Winchester.)

      LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

      by BlackSheep1 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 11:36:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  CMP .22lr (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW

        You can purchase bulk .22lr from the CMP at about .06/round delivered...but wait times are still 90-120 days.

        Do you have a couple Argentine mausers?  Do you reload the 7.65x53 now?

        The sequester is the new Republican immigration reform plan. Make things so bad here in the US that no one will want to live here.

        by Mote Dai on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 11:44:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The 93 Argentine is a nice rifle, I reload for it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlackSheep1

          and it is a pretty accurate, easy to load round....I usually use a 185g hard cast gas cked over a light charge.....mine is 115yo.....

          Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
          I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
          Emiliano Zapata

          by buddabelly on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 01:26:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  one box of new ammo and (0+ / 0-)

          half-a-dozen empty casings.

          I have not yet found a place to fire it (range rules where I can afford to shoot locally) and have no idea whether the empty brass was previously re-loaded or not. He inherited it from his dad, who did reload at least some stuff (Ruger .44Mag handgun, notably). So, quien sabe?

          So the answer to your first question is, nope. My BIL has one, and he doesn't reload yet. (That is the plan, though.)

          How I wind up doing some of the stuff I do is ... people go, "You used to be in the Air Force, you'll know how to do this ..."  Well, no, actually, but when I was there I learnt the best answer to a question I didn't know the answer to: "I'll find out." The stuff I find out how to do along the way is gravy. Or clutter, depending ...

          and $80 for 500 rounds of .22 short (or $10 for 50) is highway robbery, just like $7 gasoline in hurricane season. This is West damn Texas, people, not New York City ...

          LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

          by BlackSheep1 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 02:12:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think it's all milsurp (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KVoimakas, JesseCW

      I believe it's only American made weapons that were exported and are now being imported back into the country.

      "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

      by Texas Lefty on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 12:21:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ok, thanks for the clarification (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        buddabelly

        If that is the case, I don't really know what the impact of this executive order will be?

        The sequester is the new Republican immigration reform plan. Make things so bad here in the US that no one will want to live here.

        by Mote Dai on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 12:39:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well it screws the CMP for no reason and means (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DavidMS, JesseCW

          that when I do decide to get that garand and Carbine they will cost too much.

          Other than that nothing...

          Garands aren't really used in crimes...

          This is the kind of unadulterated crap that actually accomplishes nothing but screws the law abiding....if this is tru The President finally lost me.....I don't like worthless symbolic crap designed to make low info voters think something real has been done....

          Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
          I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
          Emiliano Zapata

          by buddabelly on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 01:28:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Garands (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            buddabelly, JesseCW

            I really don't understand this executive order.  This can't be to just target semi-automatic, 8-round Garands. Heck you cannot even use modern .30-06 rounds with them...you need surplus ammo or the expensive new stuff loaded to the old specs.  Are there endless crates of fully automatic surplus firearms sitting in warehouses with our past allies?

            The sequester is the new Republican immigration reform plan. Make things so bad here in the US that no one will want to live here.

            by Mote Dai on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 01:40:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nope and they wouldn't be able to be imported (0+ / 0-)

              anyway as they weren't registered in  the 68 amnesty or built between 68 and 86 and already in the country and on the books....

              This really is nothing but screw the collectors....lots of self righteous nattering in here though even though they show their ignorance with every comment....

              Really sad and something I thought we were done fucking with.

              I still do want both M-I variations and a tanker too...just becauise...they would go well with the rest of my collection.

              Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
              I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
              Emiliano Zapata

              by buddabelly on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 01:56:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Good luck getting a carbine (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                buddabelly, JesseCW

                The ones selling on the CMP e-auction site go for big bucks, and they are usually the old Bavarian woodland service loaner refurbs.  I first thought that maybe this order was targeting things like M2s or M14s, but I don't think we gave out many of those to allies...not there were very many to begin with as they had relatively short production lives (compared to some of the other military weapons produced later).

                One other thing, the linked article in the diary says there have been 250,000 of these firearms imported since 2005.  Over 8 years, that averages out to be about 32,000 firearms/year.  The US-based gun manufacturers produce over 5 million firearms a year...so this is about 0.63% of the annual guns produced for the US market.  It is a rounding error.  And are these weapons showing up at crime scenes?  These are usually purchased by collectors and they become safe queens.  I guess the impact is the President can make a strong statement about gun regulation.

                The sequester is the new Republican immigration reform plan. Make things so bad here in the US that no one will want to live here.

                by Mote Dai on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 03:28:29 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  yup, safe queens and shot at classic matches (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  rodentrancher, JesseCW

                  like the John C. Garand matches the club holds...

                  Any stock configuration milsurp from the 03 to the 1917 to the M-14, they are available just not a reimport thing.

                  But the majority shoot Garands.....

                  As for them showing up at crime scenes, I've never heard of it and I really doubt that main battle rifles that weigh 10 pounds, and can't really be cut down as they won't work any more...plus as you mentioned the ammunition requirements are kinda specialized....I load the M-2 Ball or even the M-73 Match but it is critical to use a proper burn rate powder or you will break the rifle....The port pressure must be low enough not to break the op rod but high enough to operate the mechanism........... I really don't see them as a criminals choice.

                  All this does is slap collectors across the face imo....

                  Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
                  I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
                  Emiliano Zapata

                  by buddabelly on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 03:46:18 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  After some reflection... (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    rodentrancher, buddabelly, JesseCW

                    I think this is a not so subtle way to scuttle Korea's ability to sell those Garands they have...make them return everyone to the CMP.  They have been fighting with the State Department for a couple of years now about those loaner rifles.  The US claims they are still US property and that Korea has NO claim to ownership.  My guess is the Administration didn't think through the optics of this executive order...or maybe they did and just don't care.

                    The sequester is the new Republican immigration reform plan. Make things so bad here in the US that no one will want to live here.

                    by Mote Dai on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 04:07:21 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  They should have to return them to the Army as (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JesseCW

                      that is what the original loan agreements specify....Then the Army turns them over to the CMP to be graded, some refurbished and sold to promote civilian marksmanship skills....

                      The program was started way back when because too may WW1 recruits didn't know the muzzle from the trigger......

                      Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
                      I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
                      Emiliano Zapata

                      by buddabelly on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 07:32:51 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  if that is the reasoning here then I would (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JesseCW

                      be iin favor of it....I want to see the og agreements upheld, the weapons returned and dispersed to the citizenry as intended....

                      Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
                      I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
                      Emiliano Zapata

                      by buddabelly on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 07:34:16 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I could be wrong (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        buddabelly, JesseCW

                        But I hope I am not.  I know there will be headlines tomorrow trumpeting that Obama is ending the CMP by executive order...but I don't think that is true.  As you pointed out, he CMP is over 100 years old and was established by Congress...I don't think an executive order can end their mission.  The CMP is not technically an importer (the Army receives the firearms and then releases them to the CMP) nor are they considered a "private entity."  I don't think the administration has explained itself very well here and that oversight will lead to incredible headaches.  The collector community will be up in arms and the NRA will do everything they can to confuse this topic with misinformation.

                        The sequester is the new Republican immigration reform plan. Make things so bad here in the US that no one will want to live here.

                        by Mote Dai on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 08:01:51 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  If there's an exemption allowing the CMP to contin (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      buddabelly

                      importing, that's great.

                      1) Bomb Syria 2)???????????? 3) Lives saved!!!!!!

                      by JesseCW on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 02:45:53 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  If you get involved with the CMP...Garand shooters (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    buddabelly

                    really love competing against other Garand shooters.

                    I miss having the excess cash.

                    1) Bomb Syria 2)???????????? 3) Lives saved!!!!!!

                    by JesseCW on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 02:44:51 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  They are fun but once I get started and can tear (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JesseCW

                      myself away from the metallic silhouette ranges I'll start with my model of '17...damn near pristine, never rearsenaled...

                      It's a late Oct of 18 rifle so I really don't think this one ever got issued and thank ghu it was never used as a ceremonial rifle firing blanks....Most of those have barrels that approximate the surface of a cast iron sewer pipe......

                      Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
                      I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
                      Emiliano Zapata

                      by buddabelly on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 05:50:35 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  If the goal here is to block carbines, and it (0+ / 0-)

                might be, I don't understand why they don't just block carbines.

                1) Bomb Syria 2)???????????? 3) Lives saved!!!!!!

                by JesseCW on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 02:43:24 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Pretty easy to modify them to fire modern (0+ / 0-)

              ammo.  However, a lot of those who buy them specifically want to shoot box stock.

              1) Bomb Syria 2)???????????? 3) Lives saved!!!!!!

              by JesseCW on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 02:42:39 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  M38 and M44 (0+ / 0-)

      I have one of each.

      Suprisingly accurate but  they kill at both ends!  Talk about shoulder separation!

      •  Multi-purpose (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW

        Rifle, sledge hammer, shoulder separator...the Russians never really designed single use items.

        The sequester is the new Republican immigration reform plan. Make things so bad here in the US that no one will want to live here.

        by Mote Dai on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 12:49:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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