Skip to main content

View Diary: The Onion absolutely nails Syria. (126 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  It's not that simple. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    absdoggy, jan4insight, Tortmaster, twigg, NYFM
    We have no strategic interest that has been challenged.
    I don't know about "strategic," but I think I'd definitely say that we—and the rest of the human race—have an interest in no nation's leaders thinking they can use chemical weapons and get off scot-free.
    Any action we take against Syria without clear sanction from the International Criminal Court or the United Nations is itself immoral, illegal and criminal.
    That presumes that the UN and the ICC are the sole arbiters of morality, legality, and criminality.

    If there is clear, hard evidence that Assad has actually used chemical weapons against the rebels, and the UN refuses to act thanks to giving veto power to Vlad Putin, who never met a human right he wasn't willing to stomp all over simply out of sheer pique, then what do we do?

    I'm not saying let's go to war, but I am saying that if the UN is presented with clear evidence that Assad used chemical weapons against his own people and doesn't take any action against him, then it is the UN—not those who take action—that is "immoral, illegal, and criminal."

    "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

    by JamesGG on Thu Aug 29, 2013 at 08:43:29 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  We are too inconsistent (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JamesGG, costello7

      to play the "genocide" card. Besides, American presence in the Middle East is toxic to the region.

      Where were we in Rwanda?

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      Who is twigg?

      by twigg on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 05:16:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't necessarily disagree with that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        twigg
        We are too inconsistent to play the "genocide" card. Besides, American presence in the Middle East is toxic to the region.
        I agree that we're not exactly in a position to be presenting ourselves as having a whole lot of moral authority (though Bill Clinton has acknowledged that not acting in Rwanda was one of his greatest regrets).

        My point is that if the UN investigators come back and provide definitive proof that Assad did use chemical weapons, and the UN still doesn't take action because Vlad Putin has veto power, then the UN will have even less moral authority than any country that does take some kind of action against Assad.

        I think this goes beyond national interest, to the interest of humanity itself. Chemical (and nuclear and biological, though that's not at issue here) weapons should be completely off-limits, with the promise that the unimaginable fury of an angry human race will rain down on any leader who dares to use them.

        I don't support military action at this point because I don't think it's been proven that Assad used the chemical weapons—but if it is proven and no action is taken in the UN because Vlad Putin thinks geopolitical bullshit is more important, someone is going to have to step up, or the next monstrous dictator will be much less hesitant to use chemical weapons.

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 05:28:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The UN Inspectors (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JamesGG, pajoly, Buckeye Nut Schell

          will NOT provide proof that Assad, or anyone else deployed chemical weapons, only that such weapons were used by someone.

          The vote in the UK was a massive blow to President Obama, because without a broad coalition, or a UN mandate, those in the region will see any action as just more US aggression.

          The Iraq chickens are coming home to roost.

          I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
          but I fear we will remain Democrats.

          Who is twigg?

          by twigg on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 05:39:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's definitely the case. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            twigg, pajoly, XenuLives
            The Iraq chickens are coming home to roost.
            I completely agree on that—the world's skepticism about claims of Assad using chemical weapons is definitely a result of the massive lie perpetuated by Bush, Cheney et al. in front of the UN in 2003.

            If it weren't for the world's mistrust of WMD claims thanks to Bush, I think we'd already be seeing a broad international coalition telling Assad that it's time to go, and threatening to force the issue if he didn't. The Brits, the French, and the Germans would be standing alongside us telling Vlad Putin to back the hell off. (We'd also be in a much stronger position militarily/economically, given the cost of the Iraq war.)

            Which, I think, means that the blood of future Syrians who are killed by Assad—whether by chemical or conventional means—is at least partially on George Bush's hands, for making it all but impossible to form an international consensus in the Syria situation.

            "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

            by JamesGG on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 06:46:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  So by this logic we shouldn't have intervened (0+ / 0-)

        in Rwanda. We can never intervene in another humanitarian disaster because we didn't intervene in the last one. Etc etc etc.

        When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

        by PhillyJeff on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:27:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site