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View Diary: Did Snowden steal NSA crown jewels? We don't know. (update x2) (73 comments)

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  •  I'm still conflicted about what he did. (2+ / 0-)
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    exlrrp, bastrop

    I don't, and never did, support secret government, secret budgets, secret courts, and spying on law abiding US Citizens, but the fact that we have been spying on our allies disgusts me. What would Churchill and Roosevelt have to say about that?

    You don't treat your allies like that. It pisses me off.

    I resent that. I demand snark, and overly so -- Markos Moulitsas.

    by commonmass on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 06:38:16 AM PDT

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    •  I still have conflicted feelings too (2+ / 0-)
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      commonmass, bastrop

      But I'm more and more thinking that HOWEVER this info got out, SOMETHING MUST BE DONE ABOUT IT!!!
      And I guess what that would mean is at least some oversight or better yet repeal of the Patriot act
      Whats real obvious here is no one's watching the watchers.
      I want to start talking about that and getting something done about that now. What happens to Snowden now is really small potatoes compared to that

      Happy just to be alive

      by exlrrp on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 06:41:28 AM PDT

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      •  I don't care if Putin puts him in Lubyanka. (2+ / 0-)
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        bastrop, exlrrp

        You're totally correct: repeal the PATRIOT act and start getting some serious oversight for the intelligence network. Intel folks have been routinely lying to congress and withholding information for years. It's got to stop.

        I resent that. I demand snark, and overly so -- Markos Moulitsas.

        by commonmass on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 06:44:37 AM PDT

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    •  Neither Churchill nor Roosevelt (3+ / 0-)
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      commonmass, bastrop, FG

      trusted Stalin...especially when he was their ally. Allies can become enemies; ask Saddam Hussein. As long as there as has been intelligence apparatus as the iron fist inside the velvet glove that is diplomacy, countries have spied on allies and enemies alike.

      Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

      by awesumtenor on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:12:19 AM PDT

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      •  I'd be happy to get into that. (1+ / 0-)
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        bastrop

        Invite the diarist. It could get fun.

        I resent that. I demand snark, and overly so -- Markos Moulitsas.

        by commonmass on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:14:33 AM PDT

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      •  well, this is true (1+ / 0-)
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        commonmass

        but on a war footing like Churchill, FDR and Stalin , it's a very different dynamic than what we have with NSA spying on China for example.

        The place was utterly dark—the oubliette, as I suppose, of their accursed convent.

        by bastrop on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:34:56 AM PDT

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        •  Well, it's also different from bombing Syria. (1+ / 0-)
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          bastrop

          You use a very good word: "War Footing". The UK Parliament just rejected that today. Well, yesterday. Churchill and Roosevelt are long dead, and their ideas are also long dead. Bill Clinton proved that.

          Now the Stalin thing: well, no one trusted him, not even Harry Truman, who famously praised him.

          I resent that. I demand snark, and overly so -- Markos Moulitsas.

          by commonmass on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:38:57 AM PDT

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