Skip to main content

View Diary: America's form of capitalism kills free enterprise and democracy (95 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  And Yet The Argument Falls Flat (27+ / 0-)

    All of the above makes complete sense yet when the corporate interests deflect these concerns with lies, our side is so busy trying to be polite and professorial that we get buried. There comes a time to get in the faces of other people and tell it like it is.

    All I ever hear from our side is ten syllable words that mean shit to the average person and bore them to death. Meanwhile, the sloganeering goes into overdrive on the opposing side and people buy into the nonsense. Why is it that someone like Malcolm X could boil things down to easily understood points (and be funny doing it)? Because he spoke like the people he was talking to. Maybe we need to push aside the Ivy League bores that infest the liberal end of things and put forward people who simply tell the truth in a way that people can easily understand.

    The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

    by The Lone Apple on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 07:01:27 PM PDT

    •  Because There is Only One Side Arguing. (16+ / 0-)

      The other side is conquering.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 07:07:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly, where is the liberal Rush Limbaugh? We (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Lone Apple, radarlady

      are too polite. Al Franken, Grayson and Bernie Sanders are all great- and they don't seem overly polite- but they are not enough. What about some real hypocritical, loud mouthed blowhards on the left spewing venom. Would that just completely cheapen the debate? At this point, I would take a few guys like that- the big difference is the facts wouldn't have to be manipulated or distorted like they do on the right; just the way the message is delivered.

      The price of anything is the amount of life we are willing to exchange for it.

      by theslinger on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 08:34:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is what we attempt to accomplish (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Lone Apple, mkor7, BYw

        every day on Netroots Radio and Daily Kos Radio with our very own Kagro X. Many would say our effort is lame, at best, but we get nearly zero help from the community that could help us the most - the G.O.S.  Still, we make the attempt 24/7.

      •  Mixed benefit (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Lone Apple, freerad

        Rush Limbaugh is a decidedly mixed blessing to the Republican party -- yeah, he fires up the faithful, but he also drives the Republican party towards the sort of extreme positions that are so unappealing to the center.

        So I don't really have any desire to have a left wing Rush Limbaugh -- but I would love to see some people who could take progressive ideas and distill them down to something simple and intuitive and help us gain votes for our ideas, instead of just votes against the Republicans.

        Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

        by TexasTom on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 10:51:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Plus, you have to assume there is a market (0+ / 0-)

        for that kind of mindless hate talk radio.  The only reason the right wing talkers have so much influence, money, and power is precisely because they get 10's of millions of listeners.  Thom Hartmann is one of the most listened to left wing talkers and he gets something like 3 million listeners a day.  The Liberal base, latinos, blacks, and women simply don't have enough of an appetite for listening to god -awful intellectually dishonest hatred that appeals so much to the right wing mind.

        "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens.................... Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

        by Auburn Parks on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 08:28:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Amy Goodman, Tom Hartman, Bill Moyers (0+ / 0-)

        to name a few.

        When is the last time you saw any of these on the nightly news or the PBS news hour.  NEVER>

        It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

        by War on Error on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 04:30:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  So, how do we... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Lone Apple

      ...distill these thoughts into simple slogans?

      Seriously, I don't disagree with your concern, which is that our ideas don't fit into simple talking points and don't end up resonating with people who don't live and breathe this stuff.

      The problem is that conservative ideas may be wrong, but they're also simple and easy to explain -- and I've never really heard a good way to distill our points down as effectively and efficiently.

      I wish I knew an answer.

      Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

      by TexasTom on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 10:49:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You Could Start With Some Simple Class Warfare (8+ / 0-)

        The entire argument about capitalism versus free enterprise over the last forty years can be boiled down to this:

        The fatcats on Wall St. riding in their limos and drinking champagne all day have gotten rich off your hard work. Over the past forty years, people like you have lost their jobs so that what used to 20 people doing something are now 10 and they're working harder than ever. So those stuff shirts save 10 salaries and instead of giving that money to the people who do the work, they put it in their pockets. And while they're having a party on your dime and drinking champagne, you're struggling to make ends meet and you don't even have enough left to buy cheap beer.
        You get the idea? Boil it all down to us versus them because that's what they do. The only difference is that there's more of us than them and pretty soon they'll have to hide under their beds when the people who got screwed come knocking.

        The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

        by The Lone Apple on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 11:03:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I like "class warfare". (4+ / 0-)

          We need to do with the term "class warfare" what the President did with "Obamacare". Take the word and own it.

          •  Right. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            claude

            As bad as Republicans are they certainly can persevere. The word play they used forty years ago is the same they're using today, and the diarist nailed it.

            "Free Enterprise" is their core. "More Money For Me" is their reason for lviing.

            Our side seems to think that making a correction to their misdirections means that the problem is solved and we can move on. Republicans know that the way a lie becomes a common belief is to repeat it over and over again – for thirty or forty years if necessary.

            What is it in the Liberal personality that makes us, as a group, so adverse to verbal conflict?

            For one thing, we're not on a power trip, and that's hugely important.
            Second, our position – which breaks down to the word "decency" – makes it contradictory to be nasty.

            A Southerner in Yankeeland

            To save your life read "Pity The Billionaire" by Thomas Frank, and "Winner-Take-All-Politics" by Jacob S. Hacker and Paul Pierson. Then read more books.

            by A Southerner in Yankeeland on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 09:22:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Why go for class warfare? Why not go for the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bartcopfan

          "they are stealing from you" approach?

          They are having a party on your dime--- that's right, it's YOUR DIME and they have it because they take it from you and keep it for themselves rather than give it to you in the form of wages, benefits, vacation, job security, pension, or a variety/combination of the above.  

          That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

          by concernedamerican on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 06:29:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Or, (0+ / 0-)

          since the United States of America is a union of dues paying states joined together for mutual security and benefit, and,
          since the United States Chamber of Commerce is a union of.dues paying corporations joined together for mutual security / benefit, and, since the American Medical Association is a union of dues paying physicians joined together for mutual security and benefit,
          why are workers who follow the American Way denied equal security and benefit?

          The Job Killing Republican Party is directly responsible for the Great Bush Recession.

          by earthling1 on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 08:33:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Give me a list (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Lone Apple

        Of what you want conveyed and I'll take a whack at it.

        •  Number one myth that needs to be overcome: (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The Lone Apple

          The US dollar comes from the US Govt.  It is impossible to run out of US fiat money.  The Federal budget is NOT LIKE A HOUSEHOLD BUDGET!!!

          Once this myth is beaten down, then we on the left can advocate for economic justice programs without an unnecessary accompanying tax increase.  Don't get me wrong, I agree that there should be high punitive taxes on wealth to try and slow down hoarding and thus power.  But we don't need to "get the money from the wealthy" in order    to "pay for" an expansion in SS or medicaidcare, infrastructure spending, etc etc etc.  The debt and deficit are absolutely meaningless when it comes to describing US dollar solvency.  Its OUR money per Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution, only Congress has the authority to "coin money, and regulate the value thereof".  That means that We The People have sovereign power over our own National currency.  If we deem it beneficial and economically necessary to suspend FICA during a demand slump, giving the average making less than $110,000 a monthly raise of almost $600 a month, well then the USA's ability to spend in its own fiat money is not changed in any way.

          Whether taxes are $1 trillion or $10 trillion, the ability of the Govt to credit or debit bank accounts (spend money) is unchanged.

          MMT = Reality

          "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens.................... Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

          by Auburn Parks on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 08:37:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We are in this mess for the most part because (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            unfangus, The Lone Apple, claude

            Wealthy do not pay their

            Fair Share
            Especially since their commerce depends on our infrastructure.
            •  If it is your position that the Govt cant spend (0+ / 0-)

              sovereign US money without first getting from rich people.  Then I am sorry, but you are mistaken.  Like I said, I am all for punitive tax rates on wealth to discourage wealth hoarding.  Not because the Govt needs to get some of its own fiat back to then spend right back into the economy.  

              "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens.................... Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

              by Auburn Parks on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 08:52:23 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So the roads and airports that corporations use (0+ / 0-)

                extensively, our schools so their workers know how to read a manual, and our police so they don't need to hire private armies should all fall on the backs of the lowest paid?

                Are you sure you are on the right site?

                •  Wow, you are so totally misinterpreting what (0+ / 0-)

                  I'm saying, its hard to know how to respond.  You put so many words into my mouth that I didn't say, its actually pretty striking.

                  The GOVT DOESN"T NEED ANYBODY"S MONEY!!!!.  The Govt is the currency ISSUER.  How much clearer can I possibly be.  When people like you maintain the false narrative that the Govt's budget works the same exact way as household budget, specifically that just like you and I, the Govt must receive income or borrow money BEFORE it can spend its own fiat money creation, you are doing just as much harm as the right wingers.  You are spreading a false myth about the Dollar Sovereigns ability to create money and give it to people.

                  MMT = Reality

                  "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens.................... Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

                  by Auburn Parks on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 10:33:23 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Hi Horace, I'll try to make things more simple. (0+ / 0-)

                  Every dollar comes from the Fed Gov, the only entity capable of creating a dollar.

                  Dollars are created out of thin air, cuz we have a fiat currency.

                  If you had a money making machine in your kitchen, you would not need to tax me in order to spend.

                  You'd just push a button.

                  So does the fed gov.  It creates accounting marks on a computer key board.

                  That's all there is to it.

                  No taxes are involved.

                  Thus, rich people, when they pay taxes, either high taxes or low taxes, are not contributing to fed gov spending.

                  Simply because the fed gov is self funding and does not need outside sources of funding, like taxing -- or borrowing.

                  Thus, the argument to treat the common person better is not coupled with the necessity of collecting taxes from rich folk.

                  Taxes merely remove dollars from circulation.

                  They don't fund anything.

                    •  Yes, and it seems really important to me that (0+ / 0-)

                      progressives decouple their social spending arguments from tax issues.

                      There was a time when people understood our fiat currency better, like in the 30s when the people demanded a fiat currency to pay for social spending -- The New Deal.

                      I doubt The New Deal would have ever gotten through if people back then thought that you'd first have to "steal" from one person to pay for another person.

                      America has always been individualistic and had moral feelings against redistribution.

                      So, the call wasn't for higher taxes.

                      The call was for a form of currency that would be plentiful enough such that, no matter how much the rich might hoard money, there'd always be more.

      •  Pretty Much What I've Been Saying... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Lone Apple

        ever since I joined Kos.

        Free markets would be a great idea, if markets were actually free.

        by dweb8231 on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 03:54:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Here's one (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        freerad, The Lone Apple

        It's the job of the govt to keep competition fair. To make sure that the small guy gets the same breaks and the same rules as the big guy. And to keep the if guy from gobbling up all the competition.

        We want businesses big enough to be successful but small enough to fail without taking the entire economy down with them.

      •  Greed Kills (0+ / 0-)

        It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

        by War on Error on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 04:30:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It always pays (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Lone Apple

      have the ability to apply multiple idioms.  Those that can speak in the boardroom or the alley (del banco al callejon) in more than one language get to enjoy a lot more of life. IMHO

    •  Mega chains kill free enterprise (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Lone Apple

      as everything from super stores to plumbing to tax returns is now a national chain, forget about a small start up, and the newly enbillionaired owners of the mega chains then buy politicians and the media message, create think tanks funded by foundations with money syphoned from and untaxed profits all of which destroyed our democracy.  Next up?  They newly enbillionaired will destroy the planet.

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 04:29:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think you are on to something, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Lone Apple

      Even when I sound a little militant, some here "cringe".

      The Job Killing Republican Party is directly responsible for the Great Bush Recession.

      by earthling1 on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 07:56:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (174)
  • Community (70)
  • Baltimore (50)
  • Civil Rights (42)
  • Bernie Sanders (39)
  • Culture (34)
  • Elections (26)
  • Law (26)
  • Economy (25)
  • Freddie Gray (23)
  • Education (23)
  • Labor (22)
  • Hillary Clinton (22)
  • Texas (21)
  • 2016 (21)
  • Rescued (21)
  • Environment (20)
  • Racism (20)
  • Media (20)
  • Barack Obama (19)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site