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View Diary: It keeps happening: Faceless Bank's Repo Contractor hauls all of W Va. Woman's possessions to dump (279 comments)

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  •  There was no intent to (0+ / 0-)

    steal, trespass, or destroy. This was a mistake, it wasn't intentional and that's the difference. If you pulled a truck up to someone's house with the intent to trespass, steal and destroy their property that would be crime and would be prosecuted. This tragedy was negligent and the parties are liable for civil damages to make the victim whole. There is no state, or jurisdiction, in the US where this action would be prosecuted as a crime.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 04:37:01 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  So if you got pulled over for speeding (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MDhome

      but you didn't intend to speed, would the officer that pulled you over then be unable to charge you with speeding and give you a ticket because there "was no crime?"  Is it the job of the officer that would cite you for speeding to make that call?  Or is that a job for a court?

      The fact is that crimes did occur (trespassing, breaking and entering, destruction of property).  Intent is something that is argued in court once charges are filed.

      Furthermore, you don't know whether or not this was a mistake.  You don't.  What if the contractor had a problem with this woman and made this "mistake" on purpose?  What if someone at the bank didn't like her and gave the wrong address to the contractor on purpose?  Those are things that you don't know.  You and plenty of others here including at least one lawyer are merely assuming that those things or other things that could demonstrate some level of mens rea did not occur.  You and the prosecutor are accepting the bank's explanation that this was an honest mistake at face value when neither you nor the prosecutor know that to be true.  So when you say that it is a "fact" that no crime occurred, you clearly don't understand the concept of "fact."

      I have no doubts that if this had been a private citizen rather than a bank, charges would have been filed and Mr. Private Citizen would then be compelled to defend their actions before a court, as it should be.  And as it should be with this bank.

      Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

      by democracy inaction on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 07:33:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Both the bank and the repo people (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        democracy inaction, GreenMother

        have an obligation to be absolutely certain of getting the right home when they do something, the least that they deserve to be charged with is CRIMINAL negligence.

        I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK?

        by MDhome on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 09:06:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They also have an obligation to right the wrong (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blue91

          by making financial compensation to the victim.

          If they cleaned all my scrap books out, I would be devastated. I have images that are near 100 yrs old, I have art work, and thousands of books, and journals and sketches.

          If someone cleaned me out like that, I would be beside myself.

          Furniture and dishes can be replaced, but the quilts made by my great great grandmother? or her set of depression glass? Not likely.

          And I don't make enough money to buy it back. Hell with gas at 3.5? a gallon and the price of food going up up up, I just get by.

          You don't know what was in that house. And you don't know what it meant to that woman. She could go to a store and find her heirloom photos cut to pieces in someone's collage tomorrow in some artsy fartsy district, or posted on the net somewhere for fun.

          My old man's medals, and our military records and more.

          Just the family photos would kill me. Just that. All the first steps, and drawings, and the intricate care I took in scrap booking and journaling our lives and our family history.

          The thought of just that being manhandled--you don't get that back. Because no doubt, even if she scanned it all onto a hard drive, that was taken, sold and wiped too.

          It's not just things! It's the life this person had, personal life, creative life, family life, love, friendships, history--all of that gone.

          People become depressed and angry when they lose that stuff to a natural disaster or a house fire. But the bitterness that would breed over a fucking mistake on paper by an entity that didn't just get the house number wrong--SHE PAID THAT HOUSE OFF! She had no reason to worry about this ever happening! EVER!

          They owe her big.

          Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

          by GreenMother on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 04:03:06 PM PDT

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      •  di - if the facts prove otherwise, it would (0+ / 0-)

        be different. From what we currently have been told the bank gave the repo agent the correct address. If anyone can show that this tragedy was something other than an unfortunate, unintended, mistake the case would have to be re-evaluated. However, based on what we now know, this is a civil matter.

        Numerous people have tried to explain to you the difference between a civil and criminal action and it's not worth the time to explain to you about why speeding is not in any way related to this event.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 12:26:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I fully understand (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GreenMother, TKO333

          the difference between criminal and civil, and they are not mutually exclusive as you seem to imply.

          From what we currently have been told the bank gave the repo agent the correct address.
          Been told by whom?
          If anyone can show that this tragedy was something other than an unfortunate, unintended, mistake the case would have to be re-evaluated.
          And how, exactly, would that information be found?  Shouldn't there at very least be an independent investigation?  Otherwise, how could such information come to light?  At least you are tacitly admitting, contrary to your previous pronouncement, that it is not a "fact" that there was no crime and that we don't have all the necessary information to make that judgement.

          You, and apparently the prosecutor in the video, may be satisfied to trust the bank and take them at their word.  From my experience, American banks do not have the credibility you and the prosecutor are assigning to them by default.

          You and the prosecutor are simply wrong; you are both making assumptions about what happened that conveniently excuse the bank without further action.  At very least, this merits further investigation.  If there were an independent investigation that showed that this were nothing more than an honest mistake, I would be satisfied that this doesn't merit criminal charges being filed, though civil action would still be merited.  But that didn't happen.

          When a bank can demand that a prosecutor file charges against someone that wrote in chalk on the sidewalk in front of the bank threatening that person with prison time, which is a case that actually was thrown out of court (though note that the likelihood of that outcome didn't stop that prosecutor), average citizens should have no less power to demand that, at very least, an independent investigation take place and charges filed if merited.

          Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

          by democracy inaction on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 01:49:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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