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View Diary: (Updated) Winston Smith's Telescreen Has Arrived: DHS To Scan Americans in Public Places (209 comments)

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  •  (....) (0+ / 0-)
    Why do they want it, do you suppose, if it doesn't make it easier to find people whom they want to find?
    What is wrong with law enforcement finding people it wants to find?  Would someone please, as the quoted material in the diary does, admit that sometimes law enforcement is supposed to find people?

    Now, the parade of horribles is that it's going to be used to track dissidents and lovers...that is, people already known and already imminently trackable because they are already known.  Ever hear of stalking?  It's really low tech.  Is there something besides a strain of Luddism at work here?

    So on the plus side, it'll help find people who are just wanted.  On the negative, not much.

    HEY COGNITIVE INFILTRATORS! I googled "confirmation bias" and Daily Kos raided my house! And and and smashed my hard drives! Ask CNN, it's all truthy!

    by Inland on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 10:09:10 AM PDT

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    •  Okay (11+ / 0-)

      You have no problem with government agencies being able to locate any individual with (potentially) a few keystrokes.

      That's fine. I still believe in privacy. I know that's a very quaint point of view. I'm not going to debate you, because our worldviews are simply too different.

      "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

      by Lost Left Coaster on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 10:18:30 AM PDT

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      •  Why should government agencies be able to locate (14+ / 0-)

        anyone with just a few  keystrokes?  We all have the right to travel about unmolested and un surveilled. Where we go and who we visit is no one's business.  Keeping track of everyone "just in case" means we all live in a prison complex and all of us are on lifetime probation.

        Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

        by StrayCat on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 11:21:23 AM PDT

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      •  The idea of the privacy of public places (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ssgbryan

        isn't quaint.  It's wrong.  Am I the only person on the blog that uses public transportation or what?

        As for locating someone with a few keystrokes, am I the only person on the blog with a published phone number, a web page, a professional license, a passport, a social, a credit card, yada yada?

        HEY COGNITIVE INFILTRATORS! I googled "confirmation bias" and Daily Kos raided my house! And and and smashed my hard drives! Ask CNN, it's all truthy!

        by Inland on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 11:55:29 AM PDT

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        •  So you wouldn't mind, then, if a carload of (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          trumpeter

          government agents followed you everywhere. You have no privacy anyway, right? They certainly don't need to justify what they're doing to you! And it wouldn't unsettle you in any way if they were taking pictures of you (in public, of course) but would not tell you why they are doing it. You know that you haven't done anything wrong, Inland, so this wouldn't affect your day in any way. Not at all.

          My point is, being under potential surveillance, so easily, all of the time (because we're talking about cameras that can identify you in many of the places you go throughout your day and respond to a centralized database and not actually about carloads of agents following you) would potentially affect the well-being, emotions, and behavior of a lot of us. If you're immune to it, well, good for you.

          "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

          by Lost Left Coaster on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 01:16:24 PM PDT

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          •  As far as I know, they are. (0+ / 0-)

            I think that what you're saying is, that they are overtly and conspicuously recording me to be threatening.  Of course, that's the exact opposite of the situation at hand, where everyone is recorded without any particular interest in any one person.  

            My point is, being under potential surveillance, so easily, all of the time
            I'm under POTENTIAL surveillance all of the time.  And yes, it's easy to switch the potential to actual.  Yet, we're all living our lives, just as we have for thousands of years.

            HEY COGNITIVE INFILTRATORS! I googled "confirmation bias" and Daily Kos raided my house! And and and smashed my hard drives! Ask CNN, it's all truthy!

            by Inland on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 01:32:16 PM PDT

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    •  Innocent people's privacy is being violated, (6+ / 0-)

      not just probable cause criminals. Do you not get that Inland? And, if so, does that not bother you?

      "You are not even aware of what is possible. The extent of their capabilities is horrifying."Edward Snowden -6.62, -6.92

      by CanyonWren on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 10:50:24 AM PDT

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    •  THe problem is that who they want to find (4+ / 0-)

      changes with the tools they have.  Police are supposed to keep the peace, apprehend those who commit crimes, and investigate auto accidents.  Surveillance of the citizenry at large leads to the creation of crimes that are not really crimes, and a class of the suspicious because of where they go.  Then when a real crime occurs, they round up the new class of undesirables instead of investigating the facts related to the criminal act.
          There are many effective ways for law enforcement to find real criminals using the data systems and investigative techniques that they have had for years.

      Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first.

      by StrayCat on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 11:17:52 AM PDT

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    •  unfathomable (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Choco8
      "Now, the parade of horribles is that it's going to be used to track dissidents and lovers...that is, people already known and already imminently trackable because they are already known.  Ever hear of stalking?  It's really low tech.  Is there something besides a strain of Luddism at work here?"
      I guess we're supposed to ignore what happened to Occupy activists, since... stalkers. And Luddites.

      While I agree with LLCoaster when they said...

      "I'm not going to debate you, because our worldviews are simply too different."
      ...this person (and/or two or three others) post as many comments in surveillance related diaries as Ray P. If one leaves these specious, poorly reasoned justifications / dismissals unchallenged, someone out there will read that as community consensus - but the second you engage in head-to-brick-wall 'debate' with them, it ends up being a threadjack.

      I guess we just have to hope the average non-participating reader of these subjects can spot sophistry (such as comparing the technology in question to a phone listing) when they see it.

      Money speaks for money, the devil for his own... Who comes to speak for the skin and the bone?

      by LeftOverAmerica on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 12:34:12 PM PDT

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    •  Seriously? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      trumpeter
      So on the plus side, it'll help find people who are just wanted
      Do you not see the potential for abuse?
    •  None of the fears (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      trumpeter, Ramoth, ssgbryan

      being expressed here are unreasonable or irrational.  Anyone who has lived through or studied what happened to societies with totalitarian governments can tell you stories about a lot of very bad things happening to lot of decent people who got caught in their governments paranoia nets.

      America isn't special. You can't be a good guy and do bad things.  When you do bad things, you become a bad guy.  Germany was just Germany before it was Nazi Germany.
      America was just America before Bush/Cheney. Now we live in a country where secret renditions, torture, imprisonment without trial, and mass spying is considered okay.

      "YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

      by Reepicheep on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 03:30:11 PM PDT

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