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View Diary: To my fellow Obamab*ts - Snowden/Greenwald bashing is Missing the Point (318 comments)

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  •  "Greenwald didn't say anything as fact either"... (0+ / 0-)

    Yes, thus my usage of the  term CT, as in conspiracy theory.

    Why would you take them on their word?
    Can you point to me an instance where the Independent has proven untrustworthy, something that would be indicative of a willingness to sully their own reputation by engaging in a conspiracy with the UK government in a manner equivalent to this (quoting Greenwald):
    The US government itself has constantly used this tactic: aggressively targeting those who disclose embarrassing or incriminating information about the government in the name of protecting the sanctity of classified information, while simultaneously leaking classified information prolifically when doing so advances their political interests.  

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

    by richardak on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 04:07:01 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Reporting what Snowden said he believed (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tardis10

      what happened is "CT"? That is just so dumb. Snowden thinks the UK government leaked the docs to the Independent. That you are trying to sell this as some outlandish moon hoax - fuck. So fucking off the cliff.

      Why would anyone treat the Independent like that? Or the WaPo? Or the NYT? Just so silly.

      •  You left out the bit about the alleged intent... (0+ / 0-)

        that being the discredit Snowden. We're supposed to believe that the Independent is actively engaged in that.

        My god, it's so outlandish for me to not to actually buy that idea.

        The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

        by richardak on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 04:23:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Adding... (0+ / 0-)

          if the Independent article had been published by the Guardian, it would have been seen as another triumph for that paper.

          There is nothing in there at all that con be construed as being harmful to Snowden or Greenwald, other than the fact that Greenwald got scooped.

          The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

          by richardak on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 04:26:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  BAAAAAAH! (0+ / 0-)

            You are a ridiculous person:

            The Independent is not revealing the precise location of the station but information on its activities was contained in the leaked documents obtained from the NSA by Edward Snowden.

            [...]

            Scotland Yard said material examined so far from the computer of Mr Miranda was “highly sensitive”, the disclosure of which “could put lives at risk”.

            It was exactly about harming Snowden. What a ridiculous ass.
            •  Jesus. How thick can you be? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Onomastic

              The Independent did not reveal precise information for exactly the same reasons that the Guardian, the Times and the Post have not, so as to not put lives at risk. How are they acting any differently? Is the fact that the Snowden documents are "highly sensitive" supposed to now come as a surprise? Haven't we known that for months?

              Part of the allegation is that the UK government is putting out information that is advancing their political interests. Considering that the Independent article reveals something that they didn't want the public at large to know, you have to jump through some major hoops to justify that in this case.

              The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

              by richardak on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 05:03:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Are you actually unaware that our own government (0+ / 0-)

                regularly leaks information it purportedly does not want the public to know in order to further its own agendas?

                Do you honestly not know this, or are you pretending not to? It is actually a big part of this story. Chris hayes did a story on this recently.

                http://www.mediaite.com/...

                •  How exactly does a story.... (0+ / 0-)

                  which doesn't discredit Snowden any more than a typical Guardian story (as I've noted, they've redacted sensitive details on a regular basis), which does not paint the UK government in any more positive or negative light than a typical Guardian story, further the UK government's agenda?

                  Yes, governments leak to advance their agendas, however this incident doesn't exactly me give me flashbacks of Scooter Libby outing Valerie Plame.

                  When Greenwald wrote this in discussing the Independent story...

                  The US government itself has constantly used this tactic: aggressively targeting those who disclose embarrassing or incriminating information about the government in the name of protecting the sanctity of classified information, while simultaneously leaking classified information prolifically when doing so advances their political interests.  
                  The link he supplied clarified what he meant about "this tactic":
                  at the very same time that they wage an unprecedented war on whistleblowers, they themselves continuously leak national security secrets exclusively designed to glorify Obama purely for political gain;
                  Did the Independent story provide a competing narrative to "glorify" the UK government, let alone undermine the previous Snowden stories?  Nope.

                  The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

                  by richardak on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 05:45:16 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The story was literally used to discredit him (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Little

                    early in the thread. Which is how the topic arose. I'm not arguing either way, but when a story is literally used to try and discredit someone earlier in the thread it seems like saying that it doesn't discredit Snowden is kind of wrong.

                    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                    by AoT on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 05:55:51 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  As AoT says, you have to ignore (0+ / 0-)

                    so much it's laughable. Just one way the story was used:

                    "Edward Snowden Reveals UK's Secret Middle-East Surveillance Base"

                    Britain has a £1 billion secret Middle East-based listening post collecting emails, phone calls and web traffic on behalf of western intelligence agencies, the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden has revealed.
                    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/...

                    And the Independent exactly glorified the UK government on its super ability to spy on bad guys. You should read the story again.

                    •  How is that more damning than say... (0+ / 0-)

                      Snowden openly revealing that the US hacks the Chinese?

                      Was that a positive story for him in comparison?

                      Sure, you can club Snowden over the head with the Independent story, but you can be just as appalled (or cheer, depending on your of point view) any number of Guardian stories that reveal similar secrets.

                      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

                      by richardak on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 06:36:34 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  And you actually don't see the difference? (0+ / 0-)

                        Did you actually read the Independent story? Starting to believe you didn't. How things are framed actually makes a difference, regarding who you want to hurt. Since you're not going to respond to it, I'll say it again: The Independent story glorified the UK government. Please go read it again. Could the UK government leak a Chinese hacking story that glorified them, too? Maybe. So?

        •  Left it out. Jesus, you are Derp. (0+ / 0-)

          What else would be the intent?

          That you act like government's don't try to discredit critics is just bizarre.

          Do you know what our govenrment tried to do to Daniel Ellsberg? Do you even know the name G. Gordon Liddy?

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