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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: Obama's Syrian plan lacks a 'logical premise and a well-designed goal' (218 comments)

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  •  Here's an idea. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat, JML9999

    Let's let it pass(Syria). If it happens here, I don't want to hear one goddamned word of umbrage.

    Betchu REALLY wanna vote, now.

    by franklyn on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 08:38:36 PM PDT

    •  If it happens here I want Russia to send cruise (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      devis1, OLinda, atana, aliasalias

      missiles to my neighborhood because they can't think of anything else to do, 'cause I care more about somebody else's moral dilemma than I do my wife and kids...

      /snark

      •  What else is there to do? (0+ / 0-)

        What dilemma?

        Betchu REALLY wanna vote, now.

        by franklyn on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:01:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The right solution is always to bomb somebody (5+ / 0-)

          Makes ethics classes so much easier if you know the only answer that you need to.

          We want to punish Assad for using chemical weapons which are evil because they kill indiscriminately.   Since we can't take over Syria the only response is to drop bombs on them from afar, an act that will kill people indiscriminately.

          The problem with the whole situation is that the treaties and conventions that we all somewhat follow in wartime are based upon reciprocal action.   We have some of their guys as prisoner, and they have some of ours so there is strong incentive to be reasonable and humane.   We don't bomb your cities if you don't bomb ours.   The idea of an outside actor working as a referee in a civil war was not contemplated by the conventions and treaties.    All we can do by bombing case is kill Syrians, so it makes our outrage at Syrians being killed moot.

          Now the way out of the box is that there are a lot more ways to deal with this than tossing missiles around.   Convince Russia that Assad needs to be tried as a war criminal and progress can be made.    Obviously not easy, since it would require agreement on who to slot into the "dictator of Syria" position.    (It is too bad that we don't support the international criminal court because we don't want to be reciprocal, U.S. soldiers are above question.)  

          •  A country that doesn't respect the international (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            fran1, truong son traveler, maryabein

            criminal court has no moral authority to prate about international law. That talk is clearly aimed at the gullible.

            We aren't being told the real reason. It's at least partly about Obama "saving face" -- since the time-honored way for a US president to stand tall is shoot missiles at someone. But the people working Obama's strings probably hope the whole thing will escalate into a really lucrative war.

            •  I think it is more complex than that (0+ / 0-)

              It has a lot to do with who is controlling Syria's allegedly large supply of chemical weapons.   Once they start letting them out of the box (or they start being let out of the box) we have a problem.

              The ludicrous thing is that all of the responsible actors in this situation agree that the weapons should not be released, yet they are on opposing sides and are acting in a way to ensure that they are.   Iran and Israel definitely do not want unregulated chemical weapons floating around in a neighboring country.   (Remember Iran suffered greatly from chemical weapon attacks.)   Russia has good cause to fear CW in the hands of Islamic militants, and the Saudi's delicate tete-a-tete with their band of semi-state-supported militants would be thrown seriously out of balance of those militants had CW rather than boxcutters to throw around.

            •  Hillary = really really really lucrative war (0+ / 0-)

              The comment and the link are ironic

      •  actually (0+ / 0-)

        I bet if the US government is threatening to gas your wife and kids, you might be happy about Russia sending missles against the government that threatens to kill them.  

        •  same thing for Drone attack victims? after all a (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          truong son traveler

          lot of women and kids have been killed by Done attacks.

          without the ants the rainforest dies

          by aliasalias on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 10:12:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Missiles that hurt only governments and leave (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          truong son traveler

          people unharmed.   What a wonderful invention, kind of like a Neutron Bomb in reverse.   Who came up with it, General Dynamics?

          Once the bombs start falling all that you want to do is have the bombs stop falling.

          •  Two recommendations (0+ / 0-)

            That was the rule for a while:  the armies go find  afield and fight.

            However, first, I'd recommend taking a look into the Halabja massacre and the Hama massacre, if you haven't already.  Of course, there's always the holocaust.

            Ideally, only combatants get killed in wars, but the targeting of civilians resisting central government in mass killing is a whole other step beyond.

            Second, you might check out Insignia.  It's a sci fi book where teenagers are recruited to fly remote aircraft to fight wars remotely for corporate alliances.  Your comment reminded me of it.

    •  New version of the mushroom cloud meme? nt (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eric Nelson, CenPhx

      "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

      by ranger995 on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:33:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Let me clarify, Orcas and Mindful. (0+ / 0-)

      I meant an internal "terrorist" attack with gas. Why should anyone care about us, and possible future American troops, if we don't care, now?
      Even at that, Orcas George could have been speaking for the Syrians.
      Sorry, Mindful Nature, I should have been more explicit.

      Betchu REALLY wanna vote, now.

      by franklyn on Fri Aug 30, 2013 at 09:44:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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