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View Diary: White supremacist felon busted for arsenal of illegal guns (195 comments)

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  •  The people who least should have guns (15+ / 0-)

    are the ones most interested in owning them.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 12:29:47 PM PDT

    •  Indeed (15+ / 0-)

      And yet, the NRA will speak of universal background checks as 'criminalizing' private sales to spook people. As if suddenly you can't anymore, rather than just doing it with a background check involved.

      Hermits have no peer pressure. -- Steven Wright
      Support Small Business: Shop Kos Katalogue

      by tytalus on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 12:35:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wonder if they'll keep investigating how he did it (17+ / 0-)

      My guess is that these folks, the ones who are barred from owning guns, are either using straw buyers (girlfriends seem to be the favorite) or are buying at private sales. How I wish dealers did have to track weapons by serial number, and who buys them (with ID), so that in a case like this, the police could track back the history of each weapon.

      •  Yes, those methods make it way too easy (17+ / 0-)

        Straw purchases, private sales, at times facilitated by gun shows. Some states have more stringent requirements, not so much in Ohio.

        In our publication Gun Laws Matter 2012: Understanding the Link Between Weak Laws and Gun Violence, the Law Center ranked each state based on a review of state laws in 29 different firearms-related policy areas. Ohio ranked 18th out of 50 – having enacted few gun violence prevention laws. Among other things, Ohio requires a firearm owner to report the loss or theft of any firearm in the person’s possession or under the person’s control.

        However, Ohio does not:

            Require a background check prior to the transfer of a firearm between private parties;
            Prohibit the transfer or possession of assault weapons, 50 caliber rifles, or large capacity ammunition magazines;
            Require firearms dealers to obtain a state license;
            Limit the number of firearms that may be purchased at one time;
            Impose a waiting period on firearm purchases;
            Regulate ammunition sales;
            Allow local governments to regulate firearms; or
            Provide local governments with the discretion to deny concealed weapons permits.

        In 2009, 991 people died from firearm-related injuries in Ohio. In addition, based on data published by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, in every year from 2006 to 2009, Ohio was one of the top seven interstate suppliers of crime guns. In 2009, Ohio was also the top interstate supplier of crime guns to both West Virginia and Michigan.

        Hermits have no peer pressure. -- Steven Wright
        Support Small Business: Shop Kos Katalogue

        by tytalus on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 01:12:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  A question that deserves an answer (6+ / 0-)
          Ohio was one of the top seven interstate suppliers of crime guns. In 2009, Ohio was also the top interstate supplier of crime guns to both West Virginia and Michigan.
          If guns are easy to get in state X and this supports an increased crime rate in state Y, then since the guns are by definition easier to get for residents of state X (they do not have to drive as far, among another things), why isn't state X's gun crime rate higher than state Y's?

          After all, if Virginia is a source for New York illegal guns, and Illinois is a source for Chicago guns, and so on, why aren't the locals shooting themselves up more than the people who drive in from out of state?

          So if Michigan's homicide rate per capita (6.2 per 100k in 2011) is higher than Ohio's (4.4 per 100k in 2011), yet guns are easier to get in Ohio, then how exactly is firearm availability the culprit?

          Unlike the comment at the bottom of the section, this one is not at all snarky. I am genuinely interested in what people think is the answer to "why is the place where guns are easier to get less violent than a neighboring place where they are harder to get?"

          •  No, sorry. That's a snarky red herring (16+ / 0-)

            intended to distract from the problem. And by qualifying gun violence strictly as homicide, you're simply trying to put the best available spin on it. Anyway, I'm sure the gunmakers appreciate your support. Even with a rare moment of candor.

            Unlike the comment at the bottom of the section, this one is not at all snarky.
            If you're here to troll on their behalf I suggest moving on.

            Hermits have no peer pressure. -- Steven Wright
            Support Small Business: Shop Kos Katalogue

            by tytalus on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 02:08:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Answer the question. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              theatre goon, oldpunk

              If firearms availability is the issue then why the murder so high in Chicago with its lower firearm availability?

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 10:35:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You Do Know... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Glen The Plumber, tytalus

                That Illinois is in the middle in terms of overall firearm murders, right?  Though I'd hardly call it hard to get a firearm. It is harder than the states around it to get a gun legally, but not that hard.  Illinois' overall gun homicide rate is similar to states with significant urban poverty, but lower than most southern states with far laxer laws.  

                Choosing an arbitrary boundary like a city boundary and claiming it makes it hard to get a firearm is exactly the kind of nonsense the NRA traffics in.  You can cross the city boundary into inner ring suburbs or into another county in Illinois and firearms are as easy as the rest of the state. Or you can go into Indiana which isn't much more than crossing a county barrier and buy from private sellers who aren't even required to ask for ID or keep any record whatsoever of a purchase.

            •  I haven't had any herring in a while, now my (6+ / 0-)

              appetite is calling for some herring.

              “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

              by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 04:57:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Then you're going hungry, bud. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                theatre goon

                Chicago has a higher murder rate and lower firearms availability.
                That is cold, hard fact.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 10:33:36 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  That is Cold, Hard Nonsense (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Glen The Plumber

                  Lower availability within the 234 square miles proper of the City of Chicago doesn't make firearms hard to get when Indiana which shares a border with Chicago doesn't require an ID or any record of sale for private sales not to mention a well documented history of cross border trafficking.

                  By your theory Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut as examples should have the highest rates of gun homicides--but they don't.  They are in the middle or lower.  Those areas with the most lax laws and high poverty have the highest.  We usually call those states the south.  

                  •  Yet Indiana doesn't have the murder rate Chicago (0+ / 0-)

                    does.

                    And availability is easier for them. After all, they don't have to leave the state.

                    "By your theory"
                    I haven't expounded a theory. I am simply pointing out the falsity of the theory of "less availability of guns, means less murders".

                    The place with the most murders per capita is Washington DC.....yet another place with some of the most draconian gun laws in the USA.
                    FYI, Maryland is third.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 06:56:50 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You Don't Read Well (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Glen The Plumber, coquiero

                      ===I haven't expounded a theory. I am simply pointing out the falsity of the theory of "less availability of guns, means less murders".

                      More nonsense, but nice try.

                      ---If firearms availability is the issue then why the murder so high in Chicago with its lower firearm availability?

                      Firearms are highly available so your point is moot.  Firearms are highly available around DC.  Again, choosing a city right next to a state with very lax laws flips your entire point on its head.  

                      Missouri is third, Maryland fourth if you are talking about the 2010 numbers. However, look down the list and tell me how you disagree that high poverty and high availability aren't over represented in the upper half.  DC and Chicago fit that profile by the way.  

                      •  Firearms are less availiable in Chicago than in (0+ / 0-)

                        Indiana, yet Chicago has the higher murder rate.
                        If you are arguing that criminals ignore such gun laws, I couldn't agree more.

                        "Missouri is third, Maryland fourth"
                        I am using 2010 murder per capita. Maryland is third.

                        "high availability"
                        Both Chicago and DC have some of the most strict gun laws in the USA. They also have the highest murder rates.
                        The utter failure of gun control measures, for all to see.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 07:48:30 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  And you avoided the point (0+ / 0-)

                          Not unusual, but if you only have to drive a city boundary to get a firearm, that doesn't make them difficult to get.  

                          The utter failure of gun laws is when an individual is allowed to cross a city and state boundary in one and buy a firearm without ID, without a background check, without any record of the sale, and with no questions asked.  That's legal and that's the scandal here.  

                        •  Also (0+ / 0-)

                          You are reading murders in 2010 with Maryland in 3rd.  When narrowed to gun murders it's Missouri in 3rd and Maryland in fourth. You are sorting on the wrong column.  We all do that and this isn't criticism--it's just a clarification.  The difference between the two isn't great.  

                          •  I disagree. I am using the correct column. (0+ / 0-)

                            What difference does it make how one is murdered?
                            As Kos has said "There is a bizarre obsession with the delivery mechanism of death"

                            Nor am I missing the point: Availability is easier in the states with more gun rights, yet they have a lower murder rate.
                            It would appear that there are, at the very least, far more pertinent variables for murder rates than firearm availability.

                            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                            by FrankRose on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 11:55:57 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Because we are talking about guns (0+ / 0-)

                            and gun murders....this is really fucking obvious.  

                            And wrong again.  Look at the south with the laxest gun laws and higher murder rates.  When you have high poverty and easy access to guns, those are the highest rates of gun murders.  Then, high poverty, then low poverty.  It's fairly simple pattern for any honest human being.  

              •  Actually I have only had white herring, has anyone (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Glen The Plumber, coquiero, WakeUpNeo

                actually ever eaten any red herring?

                “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

                by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 11:49:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Where is the evidence that places with lax gun (7+ / 0-)

            laws are less violent?  Wyoming has like the highest firearms suicide rate per capita in the US.

          •  I think it's rural/urban, not cities themselves (7+ / 0-)

            but large cities with a big income disparity and a permanent minority underclass. If you are without much hope of ever seeing a better life and society seems to have given up on you and anyone that looks like you, it changes your outlook. Police are not there to protect you, no one you know just up and applied for and got a job that pays a real decent wage.

            It's hard to understand, it helps to have been very very poor with no potential for anything better and to also be a young guy at the same time.

            “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

            by ban nock on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 03:06:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  And the best part of your proposal is that what (16+ / 0-)

        you suggest does not violate anyone's rights in any way. (and yet the NRA and the gun nuts foam at the mouth any time these things are mentioned).

        “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

        by DefendOurConstitution on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 01:18:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Anyone, yes, ANYONE can buy any gun they want to (5+ / 0-)

        buy. Online, personal sales are the most obvious means of doing so. I did a search about a month after the Aurora massacre on just how many AR-15's I could find currently for sale online from individuals, it shocked the shit out of me. Many flat out stated "no I.D., no paperwork, no problem". You'll find that the overwhelming majority offered up for sale specifically stating "no I.D. needed" are on classified sections of gun club websites that one needn't be a member to advertise on. What was sick was just how many were for sale either in Aurora and Columbine, no questions asked.
           I am a convicted felon, I'm not supposed to own firearms but I get hit up by "law abiding gun owners" frequently asking if I might be interested in buying their gun. I had one too many run ins with " law abiding responsible gun owners" over the course of the past few years that made me think that maybe I just ought to go get one- not out of some fear for the boogie man, or criminals taking my shit, or breaking in, but to protect myself from "law abiding responsible gun owners".
           Run and tell if it floats your boat, I really don't care but I will never allow some "law abiding responsible gun owner" to stick a gun in my face ever again in life- I bought two, one for the shop and one for the car.
           People can think whatever they wish, I don't care about that one iota. Buying a gun even as a convicted felon is a joke, took one phone call for each one and oddly enough, after running the serial numbers on each, neither one were reported stolen. I have seen guns for sale at garage sales- how hard can it be?
            Exactly one year ago this evening a triple shooting took place just two blocks away from me. Two were killed, the one that lived had been shot 11 times. The law abiding responsible gun owner who did the shooting is claiming stand your ground, PTSD, you name it, he claims no responsibility although he was caught on surveillance cameras with audio slithering across the street and three doors down to get the drop on the people he shot.
            Just a month and a half prior the same law abiding responsible gun owner put the same gun in my face after I caught him placing KKK shit under my windshield wiper at a hardware store here in town and confronted him about it.
            Nope, too many incidents too close together, all involving law abiding responsible gun owners, I'm not having it, period. This area is super thick with their camo wearing four wheeling redneck asses and the guns are every goddamn where. I'm not going to be their victim, fuck that- convicted felon or no, I still have a right to defend myself just as they do, particularly when their asses are totally fucking insane.
           Want proof? This is the asshole who stuck his gun in my face, listen closely to the gunshots, listen to him brag how "I got them all", and remember, this happened exactly a year ago and that a month and a half prior he had stuck that same gun in my face...
           http://youtu.be/...
            He had a Gadsen flag flying, had one on the back of his truck along with NRA lifetime membership decal, anti Obama shit, racist Southern redneck shit. But hey, they're not racist, they're just "proud of their Southern heritage", just ask one...
           

        Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

        by teabaggerssuckbalz on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 06:30:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Odd, are you telling us you've committed (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theatre goon, oldpunk, DavidMS

          a crime, not once but twice?

          I am a convicted felon, I'm not supposed to own firearms
          I bought two, one for the shop and one for the car.
          You knowingly break the law to protect yourself from "law abiding gun owners"?

          I'm missing something.

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 03:58:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Did you read the whole comment? (6+ / 0-)

            You must be missing something.

            It's all about how where he lives there are a bunch of people who have guns that are supposedly "law abiding" but are very dangerous, going by the one that put a gun in his face then a month or so later killed some people and claimed SYG.



            Women create the entire labor force.
            ---------------------------------------------
            Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

            by splashy on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 04:46:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  splashy, this is teh interwebz (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gerrilea, oldpunk, DavidMS, FrankRose

              Where all women are slender, and want sex 24/7 - particularly those overweight, middle-aged men, writing from the basement.

              Thus, while I accept certain aspects of teabaggersuckbalz comment, I can't help but wonder about certain embellishments.

              First, I've never-ever conducted a face-to-face sale, in which both parties didn't have to show ID.  
              This in two states without gun registration, nor gun owner licensing, nor Firearms Owner ID cards.

              One fellow, selling a single-shot rifle, even too my photo, photo of my ID, and photo of my license plate.  For a single-shot rifle.
              Open-insert cartridge-close, aim, fire, repeat.  Working like crazy, 18 rounds a minute.  Not second.

              Felons:
              There's two types.  Those prone to violence, those not.
              Violent Felons are not the natural progression of all persons felony-convicted.

              Violent felons come in two types.  Those caught and convicted, and those yet to be convicted.  
              If the local LEOs had taken an interest in the criminal menacing with a firearm, detailed by teabaggerssuckbalz, there may not have been a homicide.

              The rest of Felons, are your tax cheats, pot growers, digital copyright infringers, stolen property fences, burglars, accountants and corporate execs who defraud clients and investors, habitual alcohol and drug users, and more of that ilk, who've caused economic bruises - but no physical damage.  
              They colored outside of the line, they didn't rip the paper to shreds.  

              We, as a society, hate fine lines.  
              All welfare recipients are cheats.  All illegal aliens are sucking off the system.  All rednecks are hateful KKK gun dealers.
              All Felons, all, need to be barred from having firearms.

              The current "felon-for-life" is not consistent with the construct of sentencing, prior to the 20th Century.
              Half of the famous western lawmen were at-one-time, incarcerated, only to become Marshals or Sheriffs at a later date.

              This lifetime disenfranchisement is a result of our determination to make a permanent underclass, which feeds the current plantation system.
              The GCA '68 is THE document which made firearm possession by a felon a nationwide crime.
              Who, prior to 1968, received full enfranchisement with the passage and enforcement of the Civil Rights Act?
              Who was the most likely to receive a felony conviction, for a crime which may not have resulted in the arrest of a white person - at all?
              Who, now a felon, can no longer purchase, own, or have in his possession a firearm?  
              The GCA '68 - the new Negro Code of the United States.

              The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.” ~ Joseph Heller, Catch-22

              by 43north on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 05:27:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Read my last comment, yeah, iI embellished the (3+ / 0-)

                shit...
                   Maybe that's why my kid's not here on her birthday...
                   Oh, no, it is because a legal responsible gun owning fuckstick shot her 8 motherfucking times.
                   You people are really fucking sick, dude, none of this shit REALLY happens according to you, does it? Merely anecdotal, of course.
                   Anecdotal didn't murder my kid, a legal responsible gun owner did.
                   Anecdotal didn't put a gun in my face and a month later shoot 3 and kill 2. That was a legal responsible gun owner.
                   Need I continue?
                   

                Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                by teabaggerssuckbalz on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 06:28:39 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  By the way, isn't barring anyone really an (3+ / 0-)

                infringement upon that supposedly "shall not be infringed" shit you folks spew so often? Doesn't that show that people can and are infringed upon? Just don't infringe upon your precious rights, right?

                Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                by teabaggerssuckbalz on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 06:36:12 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  PM forthcoming n/t (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Joy of Fishes

                  The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.” ~ Joseph Heller, Catch-22

                  by 43north on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 06:55:30 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  You clearly don't understand that your right to (6+ / 0-)

                  live without fear or even your right to live (period) is completely unimportant when compared to the right of the NRA to sell more product?

                  Amazing how many defenders of the NRA and the Republican platform (at least WRT guns) we have among us, and more will soon be here defending the indefensible as the diary is dropping from the rec list.

                  “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

                  by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 07:19:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Read? ROTFLMAO! If the comment is in any (3+ / 0-)

              way less than deferential to guns, the idols in their religion, it has to be attacked no matter what it says.

              “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

              by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 05:30:37 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, you read that correctly, nothing to miss. I (4+ / 0-)

            am sick and tired of assholes with guns, period. So I became another asshole with guns- Not out of some imagined possible or perceived threat from "criminals"as 99% seem to justify the possession of, but a very real, based upon experience threat and those threats came from law abiding responsible gun owners.
               If you don't like the ease in which I obtained them then I'd certainly suggest that instead of pissing and moaning for more and more guns and easier unrestricted access to them that maybe, just maybe the focus should be on ensuring that someone like myself doesn't have it that easy, ya think? Unfettered access is exactly what the NRA pushes for and why do you think it is easier for me to obtain one than you? Why is it I have a harder time trying to exercise my right to vote than to go buy a gun off of a legal responsible gun owner?
               I am not some violent crazy mofo with guns, nor have I ever been. I am not the one you need to worry about.
               The ones you need to concern yourself with are the ones like the law abiding responsible gun owner until he wasn't law abiding nor responsible that shot and killed my kid- who by the way would have been 30 today if it hadn't been for such easy access to guns.
                The one who as he stalked her and we sought police protection from, that I was told by them "if I catch you with a gun you're going to jail", who told my kid "if I catch you with a gun you're going to jail".
                We were both "criminals" not allowed to own or possess guns for the crime of possessing weed. Ever possess weed, Gerrilea? I'm guessing you have. Just never got caught, right? Well, I did. My kid did. I couldn't protect my kid and my kid couldn't protect herself from a known crazy fuck with a gun that was allowed to have one because he was a law abiding responsible gun owner.
                Sure was, despite the fact that he had been charged with 1st degree murder, aggravated attempted murder, aggravated battery, menacing, and domestic violence.
                Difference between he and I was that he was never convicted, which made him legal to buy and possess guns. Guns he killed a number of people with. But by law he was a "legal responsible gun owner". Feel good about that? This is what happens when people like yourself advocate for guns guns guns without looking at the entire picture, that some really dangerous, really crazy motherfuckers are out and about packing legally that you have no idea are so fucked up until they go off and become not so legal, not so responsible.
                It's all merely anecdotal, of course- until it happens to you, or someone you know, or your child. Then what?
                Whatever "what" is, at that moment it is too little too late and it is no longer "anecdotal".
                It is real.
                Real as all fuck.
                She'd have been here on her 30th birthday today.
                Happy fucking birthday, kiddo...
                If it weren't for a law abiding responsible gun owner.
                Now- you want to judge me for committing a crime? Go right ahead, that's your prerogative to do so but if or as you do you may just ask yourself what you consider the following.
                I already described the first incident, the stalking and eventual murder of my child. The second incident was the mofo who posted the KKK shit upon my windshield and put a gun in my face when I confronted him about it.
                The third incident was my stepping in to stop the escalation of a irate and very violent customer at a store who was throwing shit around, knocking over displays, ect, then went after a female store clerk who just so happened to be a friend of mine, not that it mattered who she was.
                He had a gun and I suspect was the only reason he acted the way he did. The police would only serve him a trespass warning, they didn't arrest him nor take his gun.
                The last incident came as a result of a homeless guy. He asked me for some money in front of a 7-11- I told him I'd take him in and buy whatever he wanted, and did. That offended some fat redneck camo (yes, that's for real, he was wearing camo) wearing piece of shit who confronted the two of us as we exited the store with a tirade of bullshit about how he wouldn't "give that piece of shit a fucking dime". When I told him it was none of his fucking business or his dime he got nastier to the point I told him to get out of my face and that my reach is 7' if he chose to continue,  "what, what, you want to do something you big motherfucker? I wish you would, and my concealed carry ..."
                I called 911 right then and there.
                Police came, police left. Since he didn't display his gun according to law, he had done nothing wrong.
                Yes, I was threatened for feeding a homeless guy by a law abiding responsible gun owner.
                And I am damn well sick of it and law abiding responsible gun owners, they are a threat and a menace. That is not an opinion or imagined, it is based upon one killing my kid, another shooting 3 and killing 2.
                No, you didn't miss a thing.
                Neither did I.

            Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

            by teabaggerssuckbalz on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 06:20:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  All I can say here is that (3+ / 0-)

              I don't own, nor have ever owned a firearm.  I have defended myself and my family once with them, however, when I was 13 yrs old.  

              I'll reference you to this posting about that story:

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              Hell, I point you to my family and our experiences with the American "justice" system we know only all too well, long before your child was born:

              http://mainecrimewriters.com/...

              I'm well aware of the consequences my support for the Right To Keep And Bear arms can bring, both imagined and real.

              And I'll finally point you to my diary on the subject.

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              I don't care how easy it was for you to obtain your illegal weapons, really.  You have the instinctual/natural right of self-preservation with whatever tool you may deem necessary.

              The reality today is that many wish to deny you that right utilizing any firearm.

              As a convicted felon, you have already been denied said right when you violated the social order agreed upon by this "civilized" society.  Whatever your crime, it came with a price-tag.  From the anger, hostility and admitted continued criminal behaviors, is it any wonder why "We The People" said, "NO, you can't touch that?"

              You've also come to realize that our government has absolved itself of any responsibility to protect us.  You see, "The police have no constitutional duty to protect anyone", as per the Supreme Court.

              But for some reason, you'd have others suffer the same fate you have because,

              "I am damn well sick of it and law abiding responsible gun owners"
              ???  Ones that have not violated our social order should be subjected to your arbitrary wishes?

              That's not how our Constitutional Republic works, not yet anyways.

              Now, if you took the time to find out who I am, you'll realize that I'm not to blame for your life's issues. And the day you pull out your illegal firearms and pull the trigger, becoming a murderer, I still won't be to blame.

              And you know what? Since that fateful day when I was 13 yrs old, I've never felt the need to own a firearm.  Despite everything I've experienced, such as: the loss of an innocent and beautiful family member, being mugged, beaten, held up at gun point and even arrested... A GUN in my world will mean only one thing, I plan on killing someone with it.

              We all chose our own paths in this life, every single one of us.  I've chosen not to ever pull that trigger, even if it means I must die from that decision someday, that choice was always mine to make.

              I will not deny you freedom of choice, why would you deny it to anyone else?  Freedom is not for the weak, I guess.

              May you create the peace you so desperately need.

              Good luck.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 01:50:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Great response and I appreciate that you were so (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea, Joy of Fishes

                candid in doing so. Only one problem though, this:

                I will not deny you freedom of choice, why would you deny it to anyone else?  Freedom is not for the weak, I guess.
                  I haven't nor would I even imply it.
                   I do not believe in unfettered access to guns by whomever wants one any time anywhere 24/7, no. I am living proof that the system as it stands is useless. Nor do I believe that anyone who wants to go packing heat in public should be able to, no. Am I against guns? Hardly.
                    Truth is I wouldn't even be here if it weren't for guns, literally. My dad was a stunt/trick shooter who was in a traveling show during the Depression. He pulled my mom from a crowd as a volunteer for a trick shot, it's how they met. My mom fought for and got  the first womens competitive shooting teams in college.
                    I am very familiar with and comfortable with guns. I wish I could say the same about their owners.
                    Freedomz include this little ditty about what the unalienable right to, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Gun owners need to respect those that choose not to own guns. One is deadly, the other, well, not so much. You know as well as I do that there are severe problems with just saying here's the guns, come and get 'em.
                    When someone with 30+ felony charges over a decade but no convictions can buy and possess all they want? Legal? Maybe in the letter of the law but would you want that person having guns? Some seriously deranged folks running around with them just because they can.
                    Just because they can can. That is hardly and will never be a good policy when you're talking deadly weapons, sorry.
                    I too had an incident happen as a teenager but it fortunately only involved myself and the person I had to defend myself from and it also involved a gun. I don't take this gun thing lightly, never have, never will.
                    You are certainly correct in that we chose our own paths in life, I am not out to shoot anyone either but apparently there are those that wouldn't think twice about doing so to me. There's only one reason to own a handgun and to say differently is a lie. I plan on moving from this redneck republican gun infested shithole, just have to make it out alive. Unfortunately law abiding responsible gun owners here have made it obvious to me that I need to rely on myself from them, not the police after the fact.
                    Peace? I'll have some sense of what that is once I get the hell away from this gun sick place. What, 30 odd thousand and we have 5 gun stores and two pawn shops? Thats disgusting. That's the end result of the NRA push for more more more. I don't drink that flavor of Kool-Aid, sorry. Those that have and do can call it freedomz if they choose but the truth is they are the minority on here and in this country and i'm sure the kids of the next generation will want to know just WTF they were thinking and they will change that fact. I have confidence in the future leaders, the ones we have now? Name just 5 'good ones" of any stripe...

                 

                Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                by teabaggerssuckbalz on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 07:22:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Rec'd for conversation and honesty. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  teabaggerssuckbalz, 43north

                  I don't blame any one specific "party" or "group" for the violence our society perpetuates, I blame us all.  We are inundated with it from cartoons to video games to movies.  Hell, even our foreign policy is all about force and violence.  

                  I too hope that we will learn to create a more peaceful society, one where no American feels the need to own a firearm, ever.  It took generations of Republican and Democratic policies to build this shameful "civil" society, guns didn't do it, they are just one of the symptoms when "We The People" are intentionally divided and taught to hate one another.  

                  Banning guns will not stop this vicious and destructive path we're on.  When we decide to reunite as Americans, only then can we progressively move forward towards peace.  This doesn't mean we must wait, hell no, we can work towards that goal whenever we are confronted with that opportunity.  Teach and live peace.  Teach and live personal responsibility.  Give ourselves the tools necessary for success. When confronted with hate and violence, don't instinctually  react in kind, find a way to evolve beyond it.

                  I know reality slaps us in the face at every moment it can and there are times when I've failed miserably at it myself.  It doesn't mean that we shouldn't try.

                  I'm glad to hear that you've come up with a solution to the destructive environment you find yourself in.  Might I point out that if we don't change ourselves, it won't matter where you go, the problems are sure to follow.

                  Peace.

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 08:12:28 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Very true, the genie has left the bottle and there (0+ / 0-)

                    is no stuffing it back in. It comes down to what do we do now that it has. I really don't know what the answer is but common sense tells me that it is not and will never be more guns and easier access to them.
                        I have lived in a number of places as an adult. Phoenix, Az having been one of them. Open carry was bizarre to me. The billboards next to Black Canyon Freeway advertising the $69 AK-47 (here come the gunnies and the correct gun lingo- tough shit, it said EXACTLY that). The signs at the door of the banks, grocery stores, ect explaining what you could and could not do with your gun. Seeing people pulled over for a traffic ticket and the cop placing the cars occupants guns on the roof until he was done, then handing them back. Very bizarre shit to see  for some Ohio farm boy.
                        I remember thinking that I was sure glad it wasn't that way all over the country because Phoenix at that time had a huge problem with gun violence and it was very apparent the direct correlation between their easy access and the prolific illegal use of them,
                        I was in my car one morning just getting ready to pull out when a car came bouncing off of the access road to Black Canyon, through the fence and plow into a couple of parked cars about 50 feet from where I was. The screaming from the passenger was almost deafening in the wee hours of morning. Ran over to the car and here is this poor lady just wailing away, shaking the driver, a crying toddler in the rear seat of maybe 4.
                       It was still dark out but the street lights were putting off good light where the car had stopped. I ran over to the drivers door and opened it. the driver just fell out, the screaming woman still attached, the kids wailing louder with the door open. The mans head was literally half gone and the scene reminded me of JFK's assassination, poor Jackie trying to get the piece of Johns skull that had been blown off.
                       Obviously the man was dead. There were no cell phones to call anyone. Because they came across the access road it was not a heavily traveled or occupied area, especially at 3:30 in the morning. I was on my own with an dead man, his apparent frantic and distraught wife and that beautiful little girl peering over the seat watching the entire scene. The woman wouldn't respond to anything I asked, I wanted her and the baby to get away from the scene, come while I called the police from my apartment. She didn't respond.
                        When I opened the door to get the little girl out she ran around the open doors and me to her daddy, "wake up, please Daddy, wake up". I have never in my life been in such a helplessly useless predicament- do I just snatch this girl up and take her kicking and screaming back to my apartment? Just leave them both?
                       Choosing the latter I ran back to my apartment, made the call then ran back to the scene- no one else had heard or seen it apparently because there they both were, alone. crying and now covered head to toe in blood. It seemed like forever waiting for the cops to get there, I suppose it was merely minutes and thankfully they took over and literally dragged the woman and child away from the scene.
                        I already knew that this was no typical accident but the cops rapidly confirmed it, the drivers side window was blown out, there were two bullet holes in the door and half of the victims right side of his head was gone. My being there of course made me a witness to the legalities although I was never called to court against the perpetrators.
                        It did put me in contact with the Phoenix PD, Maricopa County Sheriff's Dept, as well as the FBI. All were investigating this as well as a number of other shootings that ended up purely random dumb ass shit for some Hispanic gang initiation. I forget the total once they were finally caught but I do recall one of the ones prior to this one was a pregnant woman.
                        Having seen the anguish of that wife and daughter from that senseless act as it happened, as it played out in front of me was one of the most humanly gut wrenching things I have ever witnessed.
                        Just a week ago some local piece of crap "father" was arrested for a crime they called "withholding information" in a case that involved :

                    While he pleaded for his life, Roopnarine was shot in the face. That's when David Damus, 20, told his 15-year-old partner, Konrad Schafer, to stab their victim in the neck or cut his throat, according to arrest records released Tuesday by the Osceola County Sheriff's Office and St. Cloud and Kissimmee police departments.
                    Four people — two teens and two young adults — were arrested Tuesday in connection with two shooting deaths linked to the same .45-caliber Hi-Point carbine also used in random shootings across Osceola County in recent weeks, law officials said. The firearm is similar to — but shorter than — a rifle.
                    Schafer, the youngest, is accused of fatally shooting 17-year-old David Guerrero as the older teen walked to a bus stop in Kissimmee on his way to work on the morning of June 26, according to police.
                    "He thought it would be fun to shoot Mr. Guerrero," said Kissimmee police Chief Lee Massie when announcing the arrests. "That's the type of individuals we put in jail today."
                    Massie stressed repeatedly that Guerrero was just a teen trying to do the right thing when he was "picked off" by Schafer, who thought it would be cool.
                    He took his piece of sht 15 year old son to a gun store and let him pick out that gun, a 45  Hi-Point and of course, bought a whp;e shitload of ammo to go with it.
                       That piece of shit 15 year old used that gun that very same night to kill a 17 year old kid whom he had never met, randomly, for "fun", as he walked to work. The piece of shit father knew his piece of shit child killed the kid and not only did nothing, but didn't even bother taking away the gun and ammo. The piece of shit child went on a weeks long random shooting spree shooting into occupied homes late at night/early morning, terrorizing two entire counties by the sheer randomness of the targets. He went on to kill a second man. For fun.
                        The great father will see no real time out of all of this, his charge is minor and unfortunately because his kid is a juvie he cannot be executed in this state.
                         I always hear 'no new laws, enforce the ones we already have'. Well, they are. That idiot took his 15 yr old to a gun store and let him pick out the gun he wanted to go on a killing spree with and the best they can do is charge his worthless, vile and stupid ass with is 'withholding information'?
                        That's sick.
                        When I looked at what was going on around me in Phoenix after witnessing the aftermath of one of the many freeway shootings that year it was very obvious to me what the problem was- too easy of access to guns, period. Had that car gone off the I-17 just a half a block away it would have hit that infamous gigantic billboard advertising those $69.99 AK-47's.
                         That happened in 1991, 22 years ago. The price may have certainly changed but the availability of them and all guns got much easier and almost rodent like in their massive proliferation. It is that massive proliferation caused by the ease in obtaining them that i'm against, not the guns themselves.
                         I will never in my life forget those screams, especially that little girl.
                         I cannot forget the knock on my door to inform me my little girl had been shot and killed.
                         And cannot help but wonder if she were screaming like that also as the piece of shit shot her over and over again.
                         I saw up close the damage a loose gun did to the wife and daughter of the victim in AZ, and I know full well the damage and repercussions a gun caused my own family.
                         If nothing can be done then there is no point in freedomz and this country truly sucks ass and will continue to run itself further and deeper into the cesspool. MOre and more guns only cause more and more misery.
                         Personally, I have seen enough
                       

                    Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                    by teabaggerssuckbalz on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 03:20:08 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  That is the sad truth, anyone can indeed get a gun (5+ / 0-)

          (or many of them) in our Country regardless of how many crimes they have committed.  The NRA depends on that in order to keep demand for the product that they peddle high. You see, every legally purchased gun - which is how 99% of all guns get to the market - that is converted (reverse laundered?) to an illegal gun opens up another opportunity for a sale. It is simple supply and demand, criminals want to buy guns so there is always a demand in the illegal gun market so by allowing a gaping passage to transfer guns into the illegal market is key to them. Otherwise, a mature market such as guns would dry up the demand and consequently the revenue.

          It is all about money, blood money in this case.

          “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

          by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 05:06:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Citations for this: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theatre goon, oldpunk
          Many flat out stated "no I.D., no paperwork, no problem". You'll find that the overwhelming majority offered up for sale specifically stating "no I.D. needed" are on classified sections of gun club websites that one needn't be a member to advertise on. What was sick was just how many were for sale either in Aurora and Columbine, no questions asked.
          ...please.

          As for this:

          I am a convicted felon, I'm not supposed to own firearms but I get hit up by "law abiding gun owners" frequently asking if I might be interested in buying their gun.
          ...do you have a large "F" tattooed on your forehead?  Or are people supposed to be psychic so that they know not to make such offers to you?

          Lastly this:

          Just a month and a half prior the same law abiding responsible gun owner put the same gun in my face after I caught him placing KKK shit under my windshield wiper at a hardware store here in town and confronted him about it.
          Did you report this to the police?  Did the hardware store have external security cameras with recordings of the incident?

          Your hate-mail will be graded.

          by PavePusher on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 11:20:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  not playing your "prove it"games tonight, sorry (3+ / 0-)

            but IIRC I did post a number of the ads I found from your fellow gun owners, er, law abiding responsible gun owners right after the Sandy Hook shooting. Hint, Dec 14, so they'd be after then. Or was it the Aurora theater shooting? July 20. Hell, hard to keep track but I recall posting them a few days after one of those crazy motherfuckers going off with their gunz. Look it up

            Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

            by teabaggerssuckbalz on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 07:31:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  They do. BATFE rules. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk, theatre goon

        It's very easy to research the records to track sales to the first retail buyer.

        Your hate-mail will be graded.

        by PavePusher on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 12:06:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Stop calling it a loophole, it is not a loophole (5+ / 0-)

        it is actually more like a gaping hole that keeps it super easy to transfer guns that are legal into the illegal market.

        “In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it … we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

        by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 12:09:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly CwV! (4+ / 0-)

      The people I have known throughout my life who are "gun nuts" have been disproportionally weird and lacking in good judgment.  Not all of them, but it is uncanny.

      Political compass: -8.75 / -4.72

      by Mark Mywurtz on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 05:11:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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