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  •  Then you're going hungry, bud. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theatre goon

    Chicago has a higher murder rate and lower firearms availability.
    That is cold, hard fact.

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 10:33:36 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  That is Cold, Hard Nonsense (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Glen The Plumber

      Lower availability within the 234 square miles proper of the City of Chicago doesn't make firearms hard to get when Indiana which shares a border with Chicago doesn't require an ID or any record of sale for private sales not to mention a well documented history of cross border trafficking.

      By your theory Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut as examples should have the highest rates of gun homicides--but they don't.  They are in the middle or lower.  Those areas with the most lax laws and high poverty have the highest.  We usually call those states the south.  

      •  Yet Indiana doesn't have the murder rate Chicago (0+ / 0-)

        does.

        And availability is easier for them. After all, they don't have to leave the state.

        "By your theory"
        I haven't expounded a theory. I am simply pointing out the falsity of the theory of "less availability of guns, means less murders".

        The place with the most murders per capita is Washington DC.....yet another place with some of the most draconian gun laws in the USA.
        FYI, Maryland is third.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 06:56:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You Don't Read Well (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber, coquiero

          ===I haven't expounded a theory. I am simply pointing out the falsity of the theory of "less availability of guns, means less murders".

          More nonsense, but nice try.

          ---If firearms availability is the issue then why the murder so high in Chicago with its lower firearm availability?

          Firearms are highly available so your point is moot.  Firearms are highly available around DC.  Again, choosing a city right next to a state with very lax laws flips your entire point on its head.  

          Missouri is third, Maryland fourth if you are talking about the 2010 numbers. However, look down the list and tell me how you disagree that high poverty and high availability aren't over represented in the upper half.  DC and Chicago fit that profile by the way.  

          •  Firearms are less availiable in Chicago than in (0+ / 0-)

            Indiana, yet Chicago has the higher murder rate.
            If you are arguing that criminals ignore such gun laws, I couldn't agree more.

            "Missouri is third, Maryland fourth"
            I am using 2010 murder per capita. Maryland is third.

            "high availability"
            Both Chicago and DC have some of the most strict gun laws in the USA. They also have the highest murder rates.
            The utter failure of gun control measures, for all to see.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 07:48:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And you avoided the point (0+ / 0-)

              Not unusual, but if you only have to drive a city boundary to get a firearm, that doesn't make them difficult to get.  

              The utter failure of gun laws is when an individual is allowed to cross a city and state boundary in one and buy a firearm without ID, without a background check, without any record of the sale, and with no questions asked.  That's legal and that's the scandal here.  

            •  Also (0+ / 0-)

              You are reading murders in 2010 with Maryland in 3rd.  When narrowed to gun murders it's Missouri in 3rd and Maryland in fourth. You are sorting on the wrong column.  We all do that and this isn't criticism--it's just a clarification.  The difference between the two isn't great.  

              •  I disagree. I am using the correct column. (0+ / 0-)

                What difference does it make how one is murdered?
                As Kos has said "There is a bizarre obsession with the delivery mechanism of death"

                Nor am I missing the point: Availability is easier in the states with more gun rights, yet they have a lower murder rate.
                It would appear that there are, at the very least, far more pertinent variables for murder rates than firearm availability.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Mon Sep 02, 2013 at 11:55:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Because we are talking about guns (0+ / 0-)

                  and gun murders....this is really fucking obvious.  

                  And wrong again.  Look at the south with the laxest gun laws and higher murder rates.  When you have high poverty and easy access to guns, those are the highest rates of gun murders.  Then, high poverty, then low poverty.  It's fairly simple pattern for any honest human being.  

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