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View Diary: Obama makes the right choice and will present his case on Syria to the whole Congress for a vote (521 comments)

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  •  No they are not a threat to US citizens (7+ / 0-)

    thats ridiculous.   By the same token, the nuclear weapons of Russia are a threat also.  Should we attack Russia?

    •  Are you having trouble reading what my comments (17+ / 0-)

      actually say or are you being purposefully obstinate?

      Please re-read:

      Chemical weapons in a failing/disintegrating state are a danger to virtually everyone on the planet.
      Russia is not a failing/disintegrating state.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 12:03:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  your argument is beyond ridiculous (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Treetrunk, Boris49, InAntalya

        You argue that chemical weapons are a danger in Syria because the Syrian State is failing/disintegrating and the solution is to bomb the Syrian state?

        Think about it.

        •  Actually, I think you need to think (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          El Mito, Lawrence

          whether than get carried away by emotions.  The person actually has a point that I had not considered -- an unstable country with chemical weapons.  Weapons that can end up in the hands of every terrorist group with an itching to create holy jihad against Americans.  

          Not that I'm in favor of military action, but at least I do understand the logic here as to why it would be considered.  This is too serious of a deal to be emoting all over the place.  I think that everyone should understand what is at stake and why.

          Then a reasoned debate can occur.  I don't think you are there yet.

      •  That's the same neocon playbook (9+ / 0-)

        Those weapons don't threaten the United States and to claim that because some idiot American might wander into Syria that we have the right to go war with Syria to protect Americans is crazy.

        This makes me as angry as anything.  It's the utter absurdity of the GWOT.   There is someone somewhere who might get his hand on a weapon someday and some American somewhere someday might run across this fellow THEREFORE we have the right to visit carnage on some other people just because we can.  

        You might as well say that beer is a security threat to the United States because an American might get hit by a drunk driver on a foreign vacation.

        •  That is not the only way those things (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lawrence

          can be a threat to Americans.  There are Americans living abroad.  There are American interests abroad.  There can be breeches of security here that would allow such weapons in this country.  The scenarios are many.   It's not about being hawkish, either.  It's about understanding what can really happen.  

      •  Lawrence, how did Syria become this (0+ / 0-)

        "failing/disintegrating state"???

        US says it will give military aid to Syria rebels

        The BBC's Jim Muir in Beirut says the US announcement is one that the Syrian opposition has been pushing and praying for for months.

        It seems clear that President Obama has finally been persuaded, as Britain and France have argued, that the battlefield cannot be allowed to tilt strongly in the regime's favour, as is currently happening, he adds.

        -cut-

        A spokesperson for UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon told the BBC that he remained against "any further militarisation" of the conflict in Syria, saying the people there need peace not more weapons.

        We've been giving aide and comfort the traitors in Syria for years.  Just like we fomented "revolution" in Iran 60 yrs ago. Just like we've been doing so for the last 10 yrs in places like Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, et al.

        If we kept our dirty little militaristic paws at home, these countries couldn't become "failing" states.

        What's clear, the Assad government is winning the war we started with him when we funded, armed and trained the mercenaries in his country.

        What's also clear, these US backed "insurgents" are the ones committing these crimes against humanity and attempting to destabilize the country.

        Syrian Insurgents Force Prisoner to Become a Suicide Bomber

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 05:19:15 PM PDT

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        •  Sorry dude, but the whole theory that the Arab (0+ / 0-)

          Spring is caused by the U.S. is pretty silly and, tbh., reeks of a type of supremacism that borders on racism to me because it robs Arabs of their agency.

          The fact is that the internet and the increasing interconnectedness of the world has had a profound effect on the world, and the Arab Spring is a result of that.

          That's why the Arab Spring has been ideologically blind, dethroning mostly pro-western dictators, but also hitting former Soviet Bloc client dictators.

          Syria became this failed state because Assad decided to cling to power and shut down the Arab Spring with the utmost of brutality when it arrived in Syria.

          "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

          by Lawrence on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 12:45:56 AM PDT

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          •  What part of me being a woman don't you accept? (0+ / 0-)

            Our M.O. is the same world over.  The thing is we have proof of Western intervention in the most bizarre pot stirring I've ever seen.

            British special forces caught dressed as Arab 'terrorists'

            You may wish to claim it's all some grass roots movement AGAINST SYRIA, I don't buy into the propaganda presented by our media.

            Thousands rally all over Syria in support of Bashar Al-Assad.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 01:18:51 AM PDT

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            •  Oops, sorry about that. (0+ / 0-)

              I understand that you don't accept it and would rather see some big, U.S.-driven conspiracy.

              You shouldn't trust the MSM and should filter it but you shouldn't trust non-msm news sources either.  Many non-MSM "news" sources have their own agenda and are even less objective than the MSM and have even worse journalistic standards.

              And you really should try to understand the Arab Spring as a whole in order to understand how it played out in Syria and why it went so bad there.  

              "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

              by Lawrence on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 02:15:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks for the apology, I am a woman....;) (0+ / 0-)

                I really don't want to believe anything but the facts, honest.

                We have no right to go after any sovereign nation that has done nothing to us.

                It went bad there because we funded, trained and armed the rebels.

                What would our government do if the Chinese funded, trained and supported any of the militia groups the SPLC rants on about???

                We created the mess, it's not much more clear than that.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 07:38:30 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well, I'll try and do my best to remember that. (0+ / 0-)

                  I really don't understand how you come to the conclusion that "we created the mess, it's not much more clear than that."

                  The mess in Syria has really deep roots that go all the way back to the Roman Empire and the later Arab Empires.  There are all kinds of factors at play there and, tbh., we are a far more minor player there than you seem to realize.

                  As for going after a "sovereign" nation...

                  Syria isn't really a sovereign nation anymore, but more like a nation with multiple zones that are at war with each other.  The three main zones are:

                  The zone in the west and southwest that is controlled by the regime.

                  The zone in the east and north that is controlled by Sunni Arab rebels of all kinds of different stripes, from moderate to extreme.

                  The zone in the northeast and some enclaves in the north that are controlled by the Kurdish PYD.

                  I'm also not sure that the whole concept of sovereignty is necessarily a good one when governments start killing by using genocidal weapons like Sarin Gas.  The whole concept of sovereignty dates back to aristocrats using the concept to stake their claims to conquered territories, no matter what the inhabitants of those territories actually wanted, much like the autocrat Assad is attempting to do.

                  There are no easy answers in Syria, as I attempted to explain in a detailed comment yesterday:

                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                  by Lawrence on Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 10:19:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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