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View Diary: Pew: 48% of Americans oppose airstrikes on Syria, with only 29% in favor. 54% want U.N. resolution (248 comments)

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  •  Not necessarily (0+ / 0-)

    See my comment above regarding genocide, humanitarian intervention and the UK Attorney General's Opinion of this year.

    We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

    by Lib Dem FoP on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 05:14:12 PM PDT

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    •  Yes, that is the right to protect doctrine (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JesseCW

      And the opinion you quoted only addresses part of the doctrine.

      The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. --John F. Kennedy

      by CenPhx on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 05:25:53 PM PDT

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      •  Read the whole thing then (0+ / 0-)

        I have already gone over the 3 paragraph limit here but if you look at the link you would see that the whole doctrine is addressed  - or perhaps you would like to tell me which part is omitted rather than basing a view on a necessarily limited quote.

        We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

        by Lib Dem FoP on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 06:11:22 PM PDT

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        •  Which parts are omitted? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW

          Sure thing. There are six criteria before an action is justified under the right to protect: 1) just cause, 2) right intention, i.e. is the main intent to stop suffering or or their ofher motives, 3) final resort, 4) legimate authority, 5) proportional means, 6) reasonable prospect - will the action succeed in protecting human life/are the consequences sure not to be worse than taking no action at all.

          The uk opinion addresses 1, 3, and 5. It would be difficult to argue conditions 2, 4, and 6 are met.

          (H/t to Wee Mama)

          The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. --John F. Kennedy

          by CenPhx on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 07:06:32 PM PDT

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          •  Conflation is not omission (0+ / 0-)

            neither is not having bullet point covering every aspect when they are covered in the rest of the document.  2 and 4 are most certainly covered by the legal opinion. How do you list the requirements for legitimate authority by reference to the conditions for proper humanitarian intervention without referring to it which rather by definition means it is included in the opinion.

            The last - reasonable prospect - is a political judgement which quite rightly the AG did not go into - indeed was the reason many in the parliamentary centre opposed the motion. If you actually think about it, it would be totally inappropriate to state an opinion on the prosepect or otherwise of military action in the context of its legality.

            You should note that the opinion sets out a very different scenario - proportionate and limited  - from the "total war" resolution that Obama has presented the potential for being. There you have a very good case for amendment to ensure it is in line with the stated "limited" nature.

            We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

            by Lib Dem FoP on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 07:33:25 PM PDT

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    •  The UK AG, tasked with ginning up a plausible (0+ / 0-)

      excuse for flagrantly violating the law, did so?

      So did  Yoo.  That's what lawyers do.

      "But the traitors will pretend / that it's gettin' near the end / when it's beginning" P. Ochs

      by JesseCW on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 05:30:41 PM PDT

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      •  Jesse (0+ / 0-)

        Just cool it and read. You are solely making ad hominem attacks on me without any actual input into the discussion. I normally respect your opinions even if we may disagree but your activity in this post against me is starting to get beyond reasonable debate.

        Perhaps if you actually took the view that

        Committing war crimes is a minor offense, exposing them a major one
        your comments would be in line but I know you do not.  If you look elsewhere you will know that I have already proposed alternatives to military intervention but I know these are either impractical - distribution of atropine and other anti-toxins and masks would be far too slow or face major changes to international institutions including the UNSC and ICC which will take years

        Unfortunately for you I do not then take the view that if we cannot do anything easily we should do nothing (or please correct me if that is not what you are arguing)

        We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

        by Lib Dem FoP on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 06:21:47 PM PDT

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