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View Diary: Call it war. And don't put it on the credit card either. (46 comments)

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  •  Precision bombing (0+ / 0-)

    Didn't we successfully use precision bombing to tip the balance of the Libyan civil war?  Seems that was not so long ago and people have already forgotten.

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it... unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." -The Buddha

    by Brian A on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 06:47:37 AM PDT

    •  "We" didn't do anything officially. We just (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NonnyO, WheninRome, bleeding blue

      acted as the gas station for the British and French, who have one missile and one bomb each, which they take out for walks in the park on Sunday.

      You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

      by Cartoon Peril on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 06:49:54 AM PDT

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    •  Suggest (4+ / 0-)

      you google "Lybia Unrest"  to re-gage analysis of the "success" of the precision bombing.

      "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

      by EdMass on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 06:50:18 AM PDT

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      •  And I suggest that you consider this: (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lib Dem FoP, Dr Swig Mcjigger

        the situation that Libyans found themselves in on Mar. 17th 2011, the day when the U.N.-backed intervention commenced,  was far, far worse than anything that is happening there now.

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 07:50:22 AM PDT

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        •  ya might wanna hold on that comment (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          burlydee, EdMass, JVolvo
          •  Nope, my comment stands. (0+ / 0-)

            And, quite frankly, Patrick Cockburn's "reporting" on Libya has pretty much been atrocious from the get-go.

            I clearly remember him trying to portray it as an east-west conflict when large parts of western Libya had also slipped from Gaddafi's control.

            "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

            by Lawrence on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 10:31:49 AM PDT

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            •  From The Guardian (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              "We are currently witnessing the collapse of state in Libya, and the country is getting closer to local wars for oil revenues," said Swiss oil analysts Petromatrix.

              •  We shall see. (0+ / 0-)

                States tend to go through a chaotic process when a dictatorship collapses, especially when their state institutions were weak.

                And even in its current chaotic state the situation is still far better than it was on March 17, 2011, when the U.N.-backed intervention commenced.

                "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                by Lawrence on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 10:56:37 AM PDT

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            •  Rueters, Human Rights Watch, The Guardian. (0+ / 0-)

              Libya Sidestep FAIL

              This might interest you:

              The Security Council approved the no-fly zone in Libya. And, yes, I avidly supported that because it was done just as the U.N. Charter said it should be.

              Unfortunately, the U.S. and France chose to go further than a no-fly zone and wound up killing hundreds of civilians in the process. And then they pretty much abandoned the Libyans. We've now got this mess in the country in which militias, including jihadi militias are in control in many areas and the central government is having a devil of a time getting a grasp on things. Oil production is one-tenth what it was in January 2011. That's not because of destruction from the war, but because of disorganization and disorder as a result of splintering of who is in charge.  Meteor Blades 9/3/13

              Sound familiar, Lawrence? We blow shit up to kill or stop the current "Bad Guys" then leave the people to fight among the rubble: Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, now Syria?

              Our track record sucks. Each wayward bomb or missiles creates more people angry at us.

              As of 9pm 8/30/13: RETIRED Pie Warrior. Substance over Sh*t Flinging (as best as I am able) ~ JV

              by JVolvo on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 12:35:38 PM PDT

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              •  I agree with MB that the West dropped the (0+ / 0-)

                ball in post-revolution Libya.  Much more institutional training and massive training for a new police force should have been given immediately.

                In a way, I can understand how that happened, though.  The elections went really well and hardly anyone was really expecting the Muslim Brotherhood to do a power play after having lost the election.

                That being said, it's not correct to say that Libya is rubble.  You should go watch some recent tour videos from Tripoli on youtube if you really think that that is true.

                And btw, the U.S./west is more popular in Libya than in any other North African Country because of the intervention.

                You do realize that "100s" of civilians killed in a 9 month bombing campaign in a conflict that had tens of thousands of casualties means that utmost care was given not to hit civilians, right?

                "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

                by Lawrence on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 02:05:24 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Further (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        It took the USA over 50 years to reconcile intense political differences between two sides and that were only resolved temporarily after the bloodiest war (proportionally) in its history.  It took another 100+ years to resolve some of the resulting and continuing injustices and arguably they still have not been resolved.

        Even mid/late last century it took armed conflict decades after independence to finally resolve the injustices between the two halves of Pakistan and today Bangladesh and Pakistan are hardly exemplars of democracy.

        So to look at a process halfway through or even just started and throw up you hands and walk away is, to say the least, short sighted.

        We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

        by Lib Dem FoP on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 08:15:22 AM PDT

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