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View Diary: Kitchen Table Kibitzing 9/4: Taking Those First Steps into Greater Political Engagement (79 comments)

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  •  Dear LilithGardener, (10+ / 0-)

    I really appreciate this group and its ethos and purposes.

    But (and this may not be the ideal venue for discussing this) I am loathe to join, only because of this:

    We will discuss firearms law and policy with an emphasis on the many historical ethics and ideals of Western Civilization, as opposed to what are currently known as "Libertarian" ideals.
    And this is where I cavil. Like Gandhi, I think that Western Civilization "would be a good idea," but the term used non-ironically raises all my hackles. The ethics and ideals of Western civilization are as relevant and great as the ethics and ideals of Eastern civilization; making this demarcation seems to be just a hollow patting oneself on the back.

    What about humanitarian ideals? Or universal/global ethics?

    I understand that the phrase may have been chosen for certain specific political purposes, but the usage of this phrase has ramifications that go beyond this specific purpose. It (inadvertently, I am sure) makes all of us who do not belong to Western Civilization feel uncivilized and savage, which (I am sure) is not the intent of your group.

    It's *Gandhi*, not Ghandi

    by poco on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 06:42:21 PM PDT

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    •  you savage..!! (7+ / 0-)

      hmmm...I bet we may consider an edit to that...of course if I use the term...it is with a touch of sarcasm...I don't see us as that civilized.

      and FTR...I think this is a great place for discussions like this...if done gently...as you have done.

      We are not broke, we are being robbed...but we can fight back...#KosKatalogue

      by Glen The Plumber on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 07:12:57 PM PDT

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    •  We don't consider the iroquois to be savage either (6+ / 0-)

      Thank you for your frank complaint. OregonOak is going to be able to give you a better answer than I can, but he is busy with the start of the semester. Kosmail your comment to him?

      Let me give it ago anyway. (I'm a scientist, so please forgive me if I skimped on my humanities in college.)

      The sentence indicates the intended point of departure is away from libertarian philosophy for its own sake. The philosophical underpinnings of the phrase "You're on your own!" I accept your point of the long sordid history of turning away from Eastern philosophies and ideals and customs. Some of which, (pranayama) are just now, finally be scientifically valid according to Western medical standards. (We're a few thousand years late to get with the [breathing] program, hey!)

      And we (speaking for myself and Oak) fully embrace the horrid genocides and other crimes committed in the name of Western Civilization. I'll take this comment to our CourtesyKos team. Thank you.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 08:59:10 PM PDT

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