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View Diary: Firearms Law and Policy Digest September 6, 2013 (53 comments)

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  •  If it's O.K. to have a background check... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joy of Fishes, KVoimakas

    for buying a gun or merely ammunition...

    Then I don't want to see any more complaints about providing ID to vote.

    The hypocrisy is stunning.

    Your hate-mail will be graded.

    by PavePusher on Sat Sep 07, 2013 at 10:32:33 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Hello PavePusher. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KVoimakas

      I have two threads of thought on restrictions on guns and voting.  Maybe taliking it through with you would claify my own mind, but this is not something I wat to try to do on my tablet.  Ill come back later to make a more subnstantial response.  

    •  Hello PavePusher (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      43north

      I had two threads of thought earlier, then it became three, and now I’ll just say that I think there are several interconnected things going on here, some of which are:

      •    Too many actions (I am not even going to give these actions the nod of calling them crimes) are defined as felonies  
      •    Too many people are imprisoned for felonies, a disproportionate share of whom are people of color
      •    The criminal justice system is all too often deliberately unjust due at least in part to the need to feed the forprofit prison industry and misguided identification and measurement of "success"
      •    Felons are not able legally vote or own guns

      And we also see other GOP efforts to reduce the number of people who can vote, whether through ID’s that they know people aren’t likely to have and don’t have the means to obtain,  severely curtailing the number of voting places and voting hours, and so on.  

      So I see the ID for voting and the background check for owning guns as having some crossover in root issues.  I object to voter ID laws that don’t come with provision for the elderly person who never had a birth certificate to conveniently obtain a free voter ID.  Otherwise, the voter ID is a deliberate poll tax.

      On the other hand, I support background checks for people who own guns as a public safety issue, while I also support working toward reducing the number of nonviolent felonies that result in both disenfranchisement and barring a person from having a gun.

      To me this appears to be consistent, not hypocritical.  But I don't know if I would be able to see my own hypocrisy.  I am interested in hearing what you do and don't agree with, and seeing where we can go from there.

      •  Precisely the point. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joy of Fishes

        Glad to see we're on the same page.

        Republicans, who'd love to see no ID for gun purchases, would require said ID - and if need be, a whole lot more, for voting.
        Democrats, who'd love to see no ID for voting, would require ID - and a whole lot more, to purchase a gun, and/or ammunition.

        Hypocrites will tell you voting isn't dangerous like a gun.
        Tell that to women who were deprived legal abortion services under Republican-sponsored legislation.

        Here's the seminal case for pending (R) legislation.  
        "Obviously" you can't trust women, can't trust doctors, and you can't trust a state medical board .  You can trust the GOP.
        I can trust that abortions in Mexico will become popular again.  I can trust that butchered abortions will once again be the source of many "woman down" calls.  Of bodies discovered abandoned in lots, or floating in a nearby waterway.

        Likewise, I can trust that if we just focus on increasingly restricting the guns and ammunition, we will make no impact on sentencing, incarceration rates, and the root causes of crime and gun violence.

        Two reasons:
        1) We the People, have the attention span of a fruitfly.  Gun ban = good, what's on TV?  The very idea that you have to read, grasp, and take action on a wide variety of abandoned issues is so '60s.

        2) We mess with the revenue streams.  If young persons became educated, employable, then what?
        We closed factories, as it's profitable to pay 25¢ per hour, not $25.  We have all these prisons.  Mental Health is messy/costly/uncertain science.  Drugs and a career "fighting drugs" is damn good income.  For both sides of the law.

        I hold that self-interest, will again, trump good governance.

        So I see the ID for voting and the background check for owning guns as having some crossover in root issues.  I object to voter ID laws that don’t come with provision for the elderly person who never had a birth certificate to conveniently obtain a free voter ID.  Otherwise, the voter ID is a deliberate poll tax.

        On the other hand, I support background checks for people who own guns as a public safety issue, while I also support working toward reducing the number of nonviolent felonies that result in both disenfranchisement and barring a person from having a gun.

        The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.” ~ Joseph Heller, Catch-22

        by 43north on Sun Sep 08, 2013 at 06:00:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We might have gotten here ... (0+ / 0-)

          ... from different directions and with different ideas of where to go next, but I agree, we seem to be on the same page.

          I read the grand jury's report on Gosnell when it came out.  I fear there will be more like him if GOP succeeds in eliminating legal abortion.

          (Sent a kosmail on an entirely different topic.)

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