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View Diary: Krugman: “Years of Tragic Waste.” (U.S. economic policy since '08: "...horrifying failure.") (255 comments)

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  •  Bully pulpit left to gather dust. (15+ / 0-)

    Where was the arm twisting?  Where was the fire?

    Where was the attempt to sway opinion to his agenda?

    It's not like there weren't any great examples from our past.

    Instead, we get weak tea.

    Timmie's getting $100k for speaking engagements these days.  He's gonna be rich!

    The Clintons are worth something like $100 million.

    Obama can be, too.  It's easy - just don't fuck it up by pissing off the wrong people.

    You and I are not in the 'wrong people' group, I bet.


    The Fail will continue until actual torches and pitchforks are set in motion. - Pangolin@kunstler.com

    by No one gets out alive on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 06:44:10 AM PDT

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    •  Those bill were pure communism* (0+ / 0-)

      * according to Teabaggers.

      Superman could not twist arms hard enough.

      "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

      by shrike on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 06:58:09 AM PDT

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      •  Hard to know if you never try. (9+ / 0-)

        Golfing is MUCH easier.


        The Fail will continue until actual torches and pitchforks are set in motion. - Pangolin@kunstler.com

        by No one gets out alive on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 07:17:32 AM PDT

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      •  I have a family of Tea Baggers. They never (11+ / 0-)

        have a response to the fact that, contrary to what Obama states publicly, we have a fiat currency and so can never go broke.

        Except of course bringing up the issue of inflation.

        Of course, then they don't have a good response as to where all those excess dollars actually are.

        Obama feeds the deficit hawks and inflationistas at every turn.

        Including telling even poor folk they must "pay their fair share" to reduce the deficit.

        Even though taxes don't fund fed gov spending, but merely take dollars out of circulation.

        So....  back to the question of just where all those excess dollars are....

        •  There are no "excess dollars" - sounds like MMT (0+ / 0-)

          MMT is generally not considered sound monetary theory to classical economists (like me).

          "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

          by shrike on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 07:55:47 AM PDT

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          •  Like it or not, we .... (6+ / 0-)

            1) have a fiat currency

            2)  inflation is cause by too many dollars chasing too few goods

            So...  

            1)  We can never run out of the ability to create dollars

            2)  Creating too many dollars might, at some point, cause inflation, ie, too many dollars in circulation

            Whether you're a classical economist, marxist, socialist, freidmanite, etc...  Doesn't matter.

            And a lot of classical, as opposed to neo-classicals, have no problem with the basic tenants of MMT -- like 1) we have a fiat currency and 2) inflation is too many dollars chasing too few goods.

          •  Well, I'm not saying there excess dollars right (5+ / 0-)

            now.

            Most people are experiencing deflation, not inflation.

            But for the inflationistas, there's supposedly too much printing, and a need to reduce the deficit.

            So, once you realize that the need to reduce the deficit never has anything to do with insuring the US doesn't run out of dollars, you have to make the case that the deficit should be reduced because there are too many dollars in circulation causing inflation.

            Thus, there must be excess dollars.

            Thus, since taxes remove excess dollars rather than fund fed gov spending, one should look to see where those excess dollars are -- cuz they're not in the pockets of most folks.

            •  Why don't you link me to a nice summary of MMT? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              katiec, No one gets out alive

              My Econ classes completely skipped it.

              "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

              by shrike on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 08:18:29 AM PDT

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              •  Sorry, don't know how to link, but.... (6+ / 0-)

                There's some nice summaries here on Daily Kos if you search for "Modern Monetary Theory" or "Money and Public Purpose".

                Also, there's Randall Wray, New Economic Perspectives, and Warren Mosler has a short book on the subject available in a free PDF file on his blog.

                But my summary would be:

                The US creates money out of thin air, thus it's self funding and taxes don't fund fed gov spending.

                Every dollar is both a public liability and private asset:

                Public -1 = Private +1

                The total deficit = the total number of dollars in the private sector to a penny.

                So, the statement:  "The deficit is too large" = the statement: "There are too many dollars in the private sector".

                Since there is idle capacity to buy, ie, unemployed labor and idle factories, then there must not be too many dollars in the private sector, but rather, too few dollars.

                Since dollars cost near $0 to produce, creating free money  to buy real output is a pretty good deal.

                How large should the public deficit be?  Depends on how many dollars are required to buy up idle capacity and get the real economy producing real wealth.

                Deficits should simply float against the real economy, you spend to buy capacity, you stop spending when the capacity is bought up.

                If the economy heats up, you tax to reduce inflationary pressures.

                Since taxes don't fund fed gov spending, the issue is never one of "redistribution" -- or stealing from the rich to give to the poor.

                But most would agree that if there's too many dollars somewhere causing inflation, you'd probably want to take dollars away from the source of that pile up.

              •  wiki is a good start (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                katiec, No one gets out alive

                Randy Wray - www.mecpoc.org/2011/07/randy-wrays-modern-money-primer/

                "A primer on Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) "
                http://www.3spoken.co.uk/...

                read and learn.

                “Vote for the party closest to you, but work for the movement you love.” ~ Thom Hartmann 6/12/13

                by ozsea1 on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 12:53:45 PM PDT

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          •  Classical economics does not provide for... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            No one gets out alive

            ...sound monetary policy to MMTers like me.

            Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 07:35:51 PM PDT

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        •  Excess dollars (5+ / 0-)

          needed to build more bombs, after the current supply is depleted in Syria, maybe?

          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

          by lunachickie on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 08:36:10 AM PDT

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