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View Diary: Obama's Second Term hinges on Syria Vote (118 comments)

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  •  I agree with you about NeoCon military influence (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    inclusiveheart

    and yes, O's 'red line' comment did commit him to action.  But couldn't he have taken the high road for his action, and put in motion the UN inspection & decision process instead of making 'drop bombs' his first choice?

    (That's setting aside my uneasy feeling about possible dog-wagging, and as I said I'm not married to that, or even dating heavily.)

    •  The UN question goes back to his (2+ / 0-)
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      Kvetchnrelease, CroneWit

      reliance on a lot of bad actors within the military command structure - and, I think, John Kerry, too.  I don't think that Kerry is the brightest bulb.  

      I think that they lack the creativity to imagine and formulate other options outside of the military realm.

      There is a great story that was only told many years after the Carter Administration about how he dealt with Qaddafi.  You probably remember that period when Qaddafi was causing all sorts of problems defiantly funding terrorist operations and was in the headlines everyday.  Then suddenly nothing from him or Libya.  Apparently, Carter got together with the leading nations of Europe and sent a secret letter to Qaddafi that basically said something along the lines of, "Cut the shit our we will all bomb you to oblivion and if you tell anyone that you got this note, we will bomb you into oblivion."  None of that played out on the global stage in part because the objective was to disempower Qaddafi's voice and cause as well as to stop him from killing people.

      Diplomacy happens behind the scenes.  The public displays we are seeing are from the military types who really can't thing outside of their box of military toys.

      Anyway, some of the things that Putin has said provide a glimmer of hope that this situation might cool down, but we shall see.  Obama has made the mistake of putting out a "moral rationale" for an attack which will leave him open to criticism if he ultimately has no visible response.  His best bet would be to focus on humanitarian aid and other strategies that could prove to be productive, but we'll see.

      •  VIP's letter suggests CIA in regime change plans (0+ / 0-)

        (It's the day after our evening interchange here, and first I want to say I found your points cogent.  This morning, in a comment by Tarheel Dem, I found a link that points to an older and deeper source for the dynamics of the current system.  I should note that (in a Buddhist way) I don't see ideological 'chain of causation' in an either-or way, but in a 'multiple causation' way.  So yes, NeoCon ideology is strong in these current events.  But in addition, there's also America's history of the 'covert overthrow'.  Ray McGovern's 'Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity' group has identified the 'covert overthrow' method in play here.  Below is my comment posted in response to Tarheel Dem.)

        http://antiwar.com/...

        We regret to inform you that some of our former co-workers are telling us, categorically, that contrary to the claims of your administration, the most reliable intelligence shows that Bashar al-Assad was NOT responsible for the chemical incident that killed and injured Syrian civilians on August 21, and that British intelligence officials also know this. In writing this brief report, we choose to assume that you have not been fully informed because your advisers decided to afford you the opportunity for what is commonly known as “plausible denial.”

        [...]

        Our sources confirm that a chemical incident of some sort did cause fatalities and injuries on August 21 in a suburb of Damascus. They insist, however, that the incident was not the result of an attack by the Syrian Army using military-grade chemical weapons from its arsenal. That is the most salient fact, according to CIA officers working on the Syria issue. They tell us that CIA Director John Brennan is perpetrating a pre-Iraq-War-type fraud on members of Congress, the media, the public – and perhaps even you.  

        The VIP's letter goes on to say that the WH's 'Government Assessment' paper is an attempt to 'fix the intelligence to fit the policy'.  The VIPs cite a "growing body of evidence . . . [that the attack] was a pre-planned provocation by the Syrian opposition and its Saudi and Turkish supporters", intended to trigger American intervention.

        The letter continues by describing a chain of events beginning August 13-14 (the chemical incident was on Aug 21).  Meetings of opporions commanders and intelligence officials from Qatar, Turkey and the US were held at the command center of the Free Syrian Army.  Senior opposition commanders told the regional officers to plan for a 'war-changing event' that would result in bombings by America, and were promised weapons by Qatar and Turkey.  They were told to position their forces so that, when the bombing began, they could move quickly to take Damascus and overthrow Assad and his government.  Weapon distribution, "tightly supervised" by American intelligence personnel, took place August 21-23 -- that is, beginning the day of the chemical incident.

        The letter continues with an analysis of 'Who benefits' from this plan, which I will omit here.

        Well, that's a new scenario, isn't it?  Except it's a rather old script.  We now know from other sources that the CIA had people 'training' and 'supporting' the Syrian opposition by August (if not before).  And hey by golly we now have VIPs' sources telling us that a week before the chemical incident, meetings took place about an event that would 'change the war' and preparing regional leaders to prepare to invade Damascus after American bombs started falling, and that 'American intelligence' personnel distributed weapons the very day of the 'war-changing event'.

        As for CIA involvement in regime change, I refer the reader to the last fifty or so years of history.

        It's interesting -- and, I think, heartening -- that the plan revealed by VPs sources was foiled by citizens' voices that delayed the bombing, and that look likely to prevent it.  

        As a sidebar that bears consideration, last nights Evening Blues diary had a link to an NPR story about 'Bandar Bush', who has been jetting around to various countries to facilitate the planned regime change.  No surprise; but I was surprised to learn that BB had been deeply involved in Iran-Contra, which at root was all about the CIA as a shadow government/shadow military devoted to regime change in the 80's (as it had been earlier in Africa and in SE Asia).  

        Just food for thought.

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