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View Diary: OPEN THREAD w Poll – “Weapons in Case of Confrontation” (28 comments)

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  •  The First Amendment - deliberate guarantor (7+ / 0-)

    of liberty?

    Hence, when the Framers created the Bill of Rights, they put the most important right on which the entire system depended first--not second, not third,  not tenth, but first.
    The First Amendment, isn't the First Article of the proposed Amendments, it's third.  Third/Fourth in the House version.

    Thus the above statement is incorrect.  Neither was it adopted "first" and all others ratified piecemeal thereafter.

    From usconstitution.net:

    Representative James Madison, who was so instrumental in the creation of the Constitution in the first place, drafted a bill of rights. Though he originally opposed the idea, by the time he ran for a seat in the House, he used the creation of a bill as part of his campaign. He introduced the bill into the House, which debated it at length and approved 17 articles of amendment. The Senate took up the bill and reduced the number to 12, by combining some and rejecting others. The House accepted the Senate's changes, voting on September 24th and 25th, 1789; twelve articles of amendment were sent to the states for ratification.
    House version as-published: (antiquarian site)
    http://www.sethkaller.com/...(SOLD)

    Senate Version as-sent to the respective States for ratification:
    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/...

    The salient details:

    Art. I. After the first enumeration required by the first article of the Constitution, there shall be one representative for every thirty thousand, until the number shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less than one hundred representatives, nor less than one representative for every forty thousand persons, until the number of representatives shall amount to two hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less than two hundred representatives, nor more than one representative for every fifty thousand.

    Art. II. No law varying the compensation for services of the senators and representatives shall take effect, until an election of representatives shall have intervened.

    Art. III. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    Art. IV. A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    Art. V. No soldier shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner prescribed by law.

    Art. VI. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue, but upon principal cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Art. VII. No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia when in actual service, in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject, for the same offence, to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled, in any criminal case, to be a witness against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

    Art. VIII. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right of a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law; and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.

    Art. IX. In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise reëxamined, in any court of the United States, than according to the rules in common law.

    Art. X. Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    Art. XI. The enumeration, in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    Art. XII. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states, respectively, or to the people.

    The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.” ~ Joseph Heller, Catch-22

    by 43north on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 01:34:42 PM PDT

    •  That's interesting - I did not know (4+ / 0-)

      Is our question then about whether the first drafts matter more than the order of the finished draft reconciled by the House and Senate?

       

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 01:46:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your question should be: (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener, Kasoru, oldpunk, notrouble

        Do the Rights embodied in the Bill of Rights, pertain first and foremost to Freemen, usually white men; and then on down the line until male persons of color, then eventually women, have a voice, a right, a vote?

        As each Amendment enfranchised more of the American populace, albeit in order of ratification, thus in order of importance.

        Or is that all patent bullshit, and you have equal say and equal right, to any man, of any color, in these United States?

        I know my answer.

        The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.” ~ Joseph Heller, Catch-22

        by 43north on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 02:47:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting that you mention patents (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coquiero, poco, 43north

          Patent rights are in the constitution, and are heavily regulated. If you think gun law is complicated the rulebook for our government to grant a property right in exchange for innovation is 4000 pages!

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 02:54:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Smart alec, I know, but I couldn't resist (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coquiero, poco

          That's a compelling summary right, 44North.

          We certainly don't enjoy equal access under the law, equal right vote, equal freedom to be free from spurious search and seizure. One of the disturbing aspects of the mortgage mess is the systematic erosion of complete chain of custody in title to land.

          Frightening mess.

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 02:56:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I was 44North (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LilithGardener, KVoimakas

            when I lived in Maine.  I've slipped a bit in old age.

            The country was in peril; he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.” ~ Joseph Heller, Catch-22

            by 43north on Sat Sep 07, 2013 at 05:05:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  LOL (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KVoimakas

              I was an excellent map reader when I was in the military. But my proof reading skills seem to be a little ahem short of a certain standard when it comes to pressing "post."

              Preview is my [neglected] friend!

              "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

              by LilithGardener on Sat Sep 07, 2013 at 05:34:40 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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