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  •  I'm not a defender of the chem industry (12+ / 0-)

    but I'm not ready to buy that based on one study. Lord knows we've had enough problems with the "vaccines = autism" nonsense over the last decade.

    We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

    by Samer on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 03:59:32 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  One must look at reality (19+ / 0-)

      and step back from that.  Autism and ADD/ADHD are epidemic.  Even if one buys into the argument that these "syndromes" are being diagnosed indiscriminately and are therefore largely incorrect, it is clear that something is wrong.  Whatever the problems are, what caused them?  We are chemically exposed to an outstanding degree, more than Europe and Canada, at least.  Our vaccination protocol for children is unreal, and there are "shots" for every little malady under the sun, for every age group, to be given to a trusting public by a clerk at the corner pharmacy for the love of God.

      And huge corporations are getting insanely rich from this.  The FDA approves substances that are banned throughout the world.  So forgive me if I heartily disagree with your comment that vaccines=autism is "nonsense".  Powerful industries have a great deal to lose if we all say enough to being exposed to their products.  They know it, which is why they are opposed to labeling.  Imagine, they are aware that consumers are so concerned and informed that they know we will actually read the tiny labels in spite of our exhaustion with everyday life and the myriad of other activities we must squeeze into the increasingly shorter days.

      Mankind has survived quite a few little years without chem's inventions, including GMOs.  Ignoring that fact, buying into the hype that we "produce more" and "better" or are healthier cause toxins is idiotic.  

      Follow the money.
       

      Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

      by kmfmstar on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 05:35:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  kmfmstar - the profit margins on vaccines (16+ / 0-)

        are very skinny. I don't think any huge corporations are getting "insanely rich" in the vaccine business. The prices for vaccines are controlled by the US government and they often don't have enough companies interesting in producing vaccines because the profits are so low.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 06:19:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You said: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlueDragon, gerrilea

          I don't think any huge corporations are getting "insanely rich" in the vaccine business.

          •  here in the Lansing area we have something (5+ / 0-)

            that used to be the Michigan Department of Public Health vaccine lab that was privatized....and produced the anthrax vaccine given in the military.  It used to be called Bioport Corporation but is now under a different name:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/...

            •  Lake Superior - in what universe is a company (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nosleep4u, nextstep, duhban, karmsy

              with annual net income of $18 million considered a "huge corporation"?

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 08:24:21 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  that is just one fucking (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kmfmstar

                vaccine

                can't progressives add or count?

                •  vaccines aren't a very profitable part of the (4+ / 0-)

                  drug business. I was just surprised that as an example of a "huge corporation" making "insane profits" someone would toss out an example of a company who has many products, not just vaccines, and has a grand total of $18 million of annual net income. Some of the Big Pharma companies make $18 million in a day.

                  "let's talk about that"

                  by VClib on Fri Sep 06, 2013 at 10:14:09 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I worked for an outfit that gets... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    JVolvo, kmfmstar

                    about 80% of its revenue from vaccines.

                    Lot's o' government money--here and abroad included in that. And those margins tend to be smaller because they demand economies of scale.

                    Anyway, this company was by-far the most employee friendly I've ever been associated with. Beyond the raft of benefits, they built a million dollar gym on the property, had on-site day care (even lactation rooms for moms), spacious, meticulously groomed, grounds on which to stroll, they even built a beautiful terrace with a built-in commercial sized barbeque and refrigerated draft beer dispenser for Friday afternoon unwindings (which they paid for).

                    Unfortunately, they are pretty tight about who gets in the club--only "essential" employees. Alas, I worked for a sub. And they were despicable, corrupt people.

                    That's why I left, but that doesn't change the fundamental point. They're doing right well selling those vaccines.

                  •  Yep... (0+ / 0-)

                    Pharma wants drugs that people take a lot or will pay a lot of cash for.  Vaccines are neither - it's hard to get someone to pay a lot to protect against something they don't have yet (And I believe prices are also regulated).  I'd make exceptions for things that are common diseases and scary, like Alzheimer's or cancer - bet a ton could be made for vaccines for them, but for something either less common (Possibly because no one gets it in the US any more because everyone is vaccinated) or less serious, just not a whole lot most people would be willing to pay.

                    •  So vaccines are just sold cause of benevolence, (0+ / 0-)

                      huh?  They don't cause anything that will be treated by any of Pharmas other "products"?  Why are shots so cheap, and pushed so hard, and touted as utopian dream to eternal happy life hood?  Do you really believe that the nations pharmacies are making no profit from flu shots?  Walgreens, Target, etc. are spending money on national TV ads pushing a product for which there is no profit?

                      Pharmaceuticals cause side effects which are treated with more pharmaceuticals.  Like any other capitalist enterprise, more is the goal, by any means necessary.  

                      Have you checked the schedule for a baby born within the last few years? Count em...close to 30 shots before entering preschool.  One of the most pushed is for Hep C......that's the one you get from using dirty needles and sex.  For an infant....the hospital wanted to vaccinate my granddaughter before she left the hospital.  

                      Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

                      by kmfmstar on Sat Sep 07, 2013 at 07:44:12 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Shots are pushed by the government, (0+ / 0-)

                        and doctors.  I've never seen anyone else pushing a vaccine.

                        As for why hep C vaccines are given to infants...  It's much easier to get a vaccine to a significant number of infants than it is to a significant number of users of dirty needles.

                        •  Err...wait....There is no hep C vaccine.... (0+ / 0-)
                          •  So the government pays for all those (0+ / 0-)

                            commercials by Walgreens and Target?  Hmmmm....and if there is no hep c vaccine, why the hell was Sarasota Memorial Hospital lying to my daughter about what they wanted to inject her baby with?  They specifically said hep c, cause our reaction was WTH?  It's an infant.  

                            Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

                            by kmfmstar on Sat Sep 07, 2013 at 09:13:49 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'd tend to put more faith in the CDC (0+ / 0-)

                            http://www.cdc.gov/...

                            Is there a vaccine that can prevent Hepatitis C?
                            Not yet. Vaccines are available only for Hepatitis A and Hepatitis B. Research into the development of a vaccine is under way.
                            There may be experimental hep C vaccines going through clinical trials, but I'd think your doctor would make it clear if that were what was going on.

                            And I have never seen these ads you're referring to.

                          •  You've never seen the (0+ / 0-)

                            ads of the twins discussing their flu shots that they get without an appointment at Walgreens, or the ones for Target, or CVS?  Well, if you don't watch much tv, its probably better for you.

                            My daughter was on Medicaid when she had the baby, which might have something to do with the lack of specific information.  Sarasota Memorial is a pretty hostile place, anyway.  My husband went there when he had his heart attack and he said they treated pretty much all of the patients, especially their relatives, with scorn.  We weren't supposed to ask questions, especially of the doctors.  Asking a nurse for water was ok, though.

                            Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

                            by kmfmstar on Sun Sep 08, 2013 at 06:27:18 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Let's consider three possibilities (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Samer

                            1. The CDC is lying to us and there really is a Hep C vaccine that Sarasota Memorial Hospital wants to give your child

                            2. Sarasota Memorial Hospital is lying to you and wants to inject your child with something else for its own mysterious purposes and they are so stupid that they told you they were going to give your daughter a vaccine that does not exist instead of picking a real vaccine.

                            3. You were so busy being paranoid about vaccines that you did not pay attention to your daughter's medical plan and did not properly pay attention to what vaccine Sarasota Memorial was actually planning to give her.

                            I know which answer I would pick.

                          •  I think it's creepy (0+ / 0-)

                            that you think you know so much about a person who wants control over what they injest.  And that you are so very hostile over healthcare choice.

                            You belong on a right wrong blog if you want to scream in someone's face about their "stupidity" and "lack of knowledge" and "privilege" because of skepticism over something as personal as healthcare.  You read a lot into my comment that I never even said.  So your creeping me out, dude.  Are you the same guy who told me to fuck myself because I don't think babies should be drugged by their addict parents?  You sound like him.

                            You've gone off the rails.  Take your meds and stop attacking me.  Or keep on, your choice.  Maybe you think you are impressing someone with your "superior" knowledge.  Instead, you're way too offended by a strangers opinion.

                            Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

                            by kmfmstar on Sun Sep 08, 2013 at 06:38:53 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh... if it wasn't one of my three options, then (0+ / 0-)

                            why don't you explain?

                            Hmmmm....and if there is no hep c vaccine, why the hell was Sarasota Memorial Hospital lying to my daughter about what they wanted to inject her baby with?  They specifically said hep c, cause our reaction was WTH?  It's an infant.  
                            So, how do you explain why you think the hospital wanted to inject your daughter's baby with a vaccine that does not exist?

                            Inquiring minds want to know!  The truth is out there!

                          •  Why don't you ask them? (0+ / 0-)

                            Look, I'm done with you.  I told you what the hospital told the family they wanted to vaccinate the baby with.  If you want to carry on like this (are you out of middle school yet?) go right ahead.  See how popular you become with other Kossacks.

                            Rush does this shit all day long.  You belong with him.

                            Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

                            by kmfmstar on Sun Sep 08, 2013 at 08:13:24 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Certainly (0+ / 0-)
                            Why don't you ask them?
                            Please provide the patient's name and DOB and a signed release allowing the hospital to release medical records.
                          •  You seem to have major communication problems (0+ / 0-)

                            with your daughter and her husband.

                            http://www.dailykos.com/...

                            Apparently you claim they are drug addicts and drugging your granddaughter and you have repeatedly reported them and their alleged abuse of your granddaughter to state agencies which have all apparently decided your claims are groundless.

                            Your daughter and her husband have, in turn, apparently cut off contact with you.

                            Given this unfortunate history I really have to wonder how you think you know so much about how the hospital communicated with them.

        •  Ooh, yea. So Squibb, Glaxo, et al (0+ / 0-)

          are oh so poor.  They don't make any money, that's why they stay in business, to lose money cause they just wanna help people.  Boohoo, sniff waa waa.  

          How stupid do you think people are?  If they weren't making money hand over fist, they would shut their doors.  These same corporations are selling their wares at a fraction of the cost overseas because they don't enjoy the lax laws here in the states, but they keep on selling them, don't they?  They aren't selling them profit free.  So how much more are they bankrolling here?  They love to say all that money goes not research.  Blah blah blah.

          Keep drinkin the koolaid, man.

          Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

          by kmfmstar on Sat Sep 07, 2013 at 07:28:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Squibb and Glaxo make most of their money from (0+ / 0-)

            drugs, not vaccines.

            If you don't believe me just check their annual reports.

            •  I don't doubt that, (0+ / 0-)

              what I'm saying is that vaccines make $$$ otherwise they wouldn't manufacture them.  Benevolence has nothing to do with it....this is a business.

              Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

              by kmfmstar on Sun Sep 08, 2013 at 05:54:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Bullshit. Your ignorance was pointed out so now (0+ / 0-)

                you are trying to distort what was said.

                Let's recap the conversation.

                kmfmstar - the profit margins on vaccines
                are very skinny. I don't think any huge corporations are getting "insanely rich" in the vaccine business.
                Ooh, yea. So Squibb, Glaxo, et al (0+ / 0-)
                are oh so poor.  They don't make any money, that's why they stay in business, to lose money cause they just wanna help people.  Boohoo, sniff waa waa.  

                How stupid do you think people are?  If they weren't making money hand over fist, they would shut their doors.

                It is obvious that your claim is that they must make lots of money on vaccines because these are big successful companies and if they were not "making money hand over fist, they would shut their doors."

                Of course, this is blinding ignorance - they make money hand over fist on drugs.  Vaccines are a minor part of their business.  They make money on them, but not much.

                •  You are in middle school, (0+ / 0-)

                  I was correct.  And you wanna argue by twisting every word.  I said they make money.  They are a business, of course they do.  

                  You are ascribing the first comment to me, the "skinny profit" one.  Reread....it originates from another poster.

                  I am no longer responding.  

                  Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

                  by kmfmstar on Sun Sep 08, 2013 at 08:19:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  that is almost astoundingly unscienctific (4+ / 0-)

        Granted you don't completely go anti vaccine but you go far further then I think is reasonable, rational or even a good idea.

        I highly suggest you go research what 'surviving' actually meant back before modern advances.

        •  Yea, everyone died before modern advances. (0+ / 0-)

          Why, we all went extinct and had to recreate ourselves just to get to the modern age.

          News flash....mankind is mortal.  No matter what vaccines, food additives, toxic "treatments" for modern diseases are devised, we shall all die.  Apparently, you subscribe to the notion that all humanity was wretchedly ill and malnourished before, when?  What was the magic age when we started living to a ripe old age?  It has always been thus.  Throughout history there have been plagues, pestilences, famines and droughts, but there have also been seasons of plenty.  

          I've formulated my opinions based on plenty of research.  You sound arrogantly judgemental, given the fact that I am not advocating denying your personal right to foul your body of all the chemicals on which you place so much faith.

          Have a great day.

          Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

          by kmfmstar on Sat Sep 07, 2013 at 07:59:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  about the level of reply I expected (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Samer

            You remind me of that church in Texas that was all anti vaccine till there was an outbreak.

            Further the 'chemicals' comment cracks me up as everything your body runs on and relies on is a chemical process.

            Seriously go educate yourself.

            •  Well, you sure have made a leap between (0+ / 0-)

              a person researching what they allow a profit making corporation to put in their body with no accountability and fundamentalist nutjobs.  

              As for chemicals, there is a huge difference between the "chemical process" your body runs on and toxin ingestion, but you go on thinkin your so smart.  And keep posting, you big hunka edumacashun.  You sound more learned and rational with every word.

              Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

              by kmfmstar on Sat Sep 07, 2013 at 09:20:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I hold a B.S. in chemistry (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Samer

                what degree are you talking from?

                Get your talking points in order too you're all over the place.

                •  Am I supposed to report my (0+ / 0-)

                  credentials to you?   Bwahahaha!  Man, that's priceless.
                  And like you really hold a B.S.  I so believe you!

                  Look, I clearly hit a nerve by expressing my views on our vaccine happy culture, and even a tiny bit of objection makes you squirmy, so feel free to get injected all day long by everything there is to offer with your own damn body.  But frankly, I'd be embarrassed if I were you to get so bent out of shape over someone expressing freedom of healthcare.  

                  You and your pal what's-his-name, the one who called me scum for not having polio atrophied limbs, need to relax and stop getting so savage over a post.  My God, I hope you two don't carry guns!

                  Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

                  by kmfmstar on Sun Sep 08, 2013 at 06:48:28 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  You are an evil idiot (0+ / 1-)
            Recommended by:
            Hidden by:
            kmfmstar

            I've spent half my life in Third World countries where many vaccines that Americans take for granted were not freely available to the poor until only 10 or 20 years ago.  I've had staff who worked for me with withered limbs from polio.

            You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about from your position of undeserved privilege, granted to you by a scientific, medical, political, and economic system that you neither understand nor appreciate.

            It's funny - there's no anti-vaccine movement in any of the countries I've ever lived in, other than the US.  That's because parents here got diseases like measles, rubella, whooping cough, and even polio or had friends or siblings who got them and died and because people permanently crippled by these diseases are still walking around as reminders of why vaccinations matter.

            If the pain, suffering, and even death caused by refusing vaccines could be limited to the adults who advocate such pernicious nonsense then I would be all for making vaccination voluntary, but your children do not deserve the consequences of your neglectful abuse and other children and even adults who they infect are even less deserving.  Why don't you look here - http://en.wikipedia.org/... - at the blind eyes of a baby you had pre-natal rubella.  That's what you can do to someone else's baby by not having your kids vaccinated.

            People who refuse to vaccinate their kids are truly scum.

            •  There is so much (0+ / 0-)

              ignorance, arrogance and inflammatory insult in that post that you get a big fat pastry.

              You are truly sick if someone else's educated, personal, deservedly cynical opinion offends you to stoop that low.

              I suggest you research your topic more thoroughly before flinging feces.  

              Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

              by kmfmstar on Sun Sep 08, 2013 at 08:06:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Please note kmfmstar's HR abuse (0+ / 0-)

                You don't HR people you are having a dispute with.

                But I really don't expect better from anti-vaxers.

                •  Read the rules. Your language is beyond "dispute" (0+ / 0-)

                  Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

                  by kmfmstar on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 07:49:58 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  So tell me, is autism caused by thimerosal? (0+ / 0-)

                    Inquiring minds want to know!

                    What size tin foil hat do you wear?

                    How many hospitals do you think are injecting babies with mysterious substances under the pretext of giving them vaccines that do not exist?

                    Are they injecting the children with sperm recovered from the dead aliens at Area 51 to create hideous man-alien hybrids or do you think they have another reason?  What?

      •  What huge corporations are getting (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Flying Goat, kmfmstar

        insanely rich doing is treating autism. Nothing like a chronic disease to roll in the profits.

        Force is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one. Marx

        by Marihilda on Sat Sep 07, 2013 at 05:20:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, like cancer (0+ / 0-)

          But it's a "mystery" where all these diseases originate, and why they can't be "cured", but there are tons of pharmaceuticals to treat them.

          Please save a child's life. www.signon.org/sign/sarasota-sheriffs-office

          by kmfmstar on Sat Sep 07, 2013 at 08:04:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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