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View Diary: Sen. Heinrich on Syria, and a Response (89 comments)

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  •  Harder to prove for one thing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    samddobermann

    War -- mass killing -- of any kind should be a concern, regardless of motivation. Ethnic cleansing, however it is being accomplished, ought to be resisted.

    Having said  that, it is less of a concern. Not just to our government. The recent Administration effort was the result of massive media coverage, with pretty damning evidence in the form of all that disturbing video.

    The chemical weapons ban is a bright line. Violations are readily apparent. And, it's a mechanism, the enforcement of which would remove a highly effective way to pursue ethnic cleansing.

    It can be hard to identify ethnic cleansing in  the midst of a civil war that  has ethnic dimensions on all sides. But, using  these horrific weapons is something the international community can identify, condemn and do something about.

    Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

    by FischFry on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 04:43:26 AM PDT

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    •  Please explain what they can do about it... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc

      and how it would work.

      "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

      by Buckeye Nut Schell on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 06:13:53 AM PDT

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      •  You're watching it play it out before your eyes (0+ / 0-)

        Pay attention.

        Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

        by FischFry on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 07:07:25 AM PDT

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        •  That is a non-answer if I ever heard one... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW, Dallasdoc

          I pay very close attention.

          "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

          by Buckeye Nut Schell on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 07:16:30 AM PDT

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          •  The answer is simple (0+ / 0-)

            We take action that seriously undercuts the regime and/or its ability to employ chemical weapons, and the regime gets the message that there will be a price to pay each time they are caught doing this. Either that, or, as we see happening in the last 24 hours, our resolve pushes the Syrian regime to make serious concessions to eliminate their chemical arsenal.

            Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

            by FischFry on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 07:32:50 AM PDT

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            •  Okay, that is a fair answer. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Dallasdoc, PhilJD

              However, what I meant by how would that work is how would bombing seriously undercut the regime's ability to deploy chemical weapons?

              We may have very good information on where Assad currently keeps his arsenal, I do not know.

              From what I understand, there are two distinct possibilities of the quality of these weapons.  If they are high quality, the chemical agents could be anywhere by now stored in large quantities or small, located throughout the country.  If they are low quality like Saddam Hussein used, then they have to be used quickly because they degrade really fast.

              If they are high quality, the production equipment would be difficult to replace and time consuming so attacking it would seriously cripple his ability to build more weapons.  However, it does nothing to address the issues of high quality chemical weapons currently stored all over which could still be deployed against whomever he chooses.

              If the weapons are low quality, that means they are fairly easy to produce using low grade, easily replacable equipment and materials.  Attacking the equipment is like a giant game of whack-a-mole.  Destroy it here and it is reassembled there.  No stored weapons but easy enough to cook in your basement as needed.

              Attacking infastructure or other prime targets does not do anything to Assad to prevent the use of chemical weapons.  However, it does violate international law and it pisses off several of Syria's allies whom we have a tenuous at best relationship with already.  It also supports a rebel force that is promoting ethnic cleansing in both Syria and Iraq and it also hates the United States.

              Sending a message that there is a price to pay is a joke.  Assad is in a Civil War, what message do we intend to send?  We are going to blow up a few of your things, help the rebels a little bit more than we already are?  We already said we do not want regime change.  

              As for the opportunity for a peaceful solution coming from this, I hope it works.  I have been asking for diplomacy from day one.  

              "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

              by Buckeye Nut Schell on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 08:42:27 AM PDT

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            •  The problem is not so simple, (0+ / 0-)

              as you indicate yourself:

              there will be a price to pay each time they are caught doing this.
              Where and when does this end? How deeply does it get us involved?
    •  "Less of a concern". (1+ / 0-)
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      Dallasdoc

      Exactly.

      Oh, and there's pretty damning video evidence.  Not to mention the testimony of thousands of refugee witnesses.   And the statements of the people doing it, who say on video that they intend to do it.

      It's not hard to identify.

      Recent history has shown the most effective weapon for ethnic cleansing is a machete.

      The crime is more important than the means.

      "But the traitors will pretend / that it's gettin' near the end / when it's beginning" P. Ochs

      by JesseCW on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 07:30:11 AM PDT

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