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View Diary: Choose: Freedom or NSA Total Information Awareness Surveillance. It's Either One, or The Other (111 comments)

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  •  No, follow the site guidelines; don't engage in (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lostinamerica

    ad hominems and fallacious arguments; stick to the facts, present a counter argument, do't attack the diarist, attack the argument.  Do that even if you strongly disagree with me, and I'm game.

    When people violate the don't be a dick rule, or engage in personal insults and logical fallacies, I'm going to call them on it every single time.

    This DBAD stuff actually is not that complicated.

    •  I read the thread, Ray. (7+ / 0-)

      undercovercalico used none of the above... No ad hominems. No fallacious arguments. No personal insults. No attacking of the diarist or DBAD behavior.

      You need to try on a new pair of glasses.

      Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

      by Bob Johnson on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 10:12:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Here you go: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lostinamerica
        Logical fallacy and ad hominem
        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        "Did we ever live in a democracy...

        Ad hominem to me, and also insulting people who agree with me

        I hate to pull the UID card but I am gonna do it. I have been here a long time I have seen a lot of rabble rousing diarists come and go and get hot and burn out. I am not telling you how to write, just really read some of the comments in a careful way because there are basically three groups of people who come into your diaries: one are the people who agree with everything you say and echo chamber you very frequently, two, the people who challenge you right off without really reading what you wrote, and three, people who read you frequently sometimes comment sometimes don't sometimes agree and sometimes don't but on a broader scale more or less think you make valid points. Just my thoughts, you can consider them or not, life goes on either way.
        Poor disguised attempt at repeating the meme that I'm an absolutist
        People who purport to know that unadulterated truth, who claim ( you are not in this category ) to be the only ones to possess the secret unadulterated truth are not appealing to me. Usually people who claim to speak the truth like to use it as a weapon rather than as a teacher
        •  Wow. (9+ / 0-)

          I think you're reading of both of those section is way, way off. undercovercalico was being positive, not attacking. As undercovercalico noted, people who post a lot here often accumulate an echo chamber fan club, not just you. It's the nature of the place, Ray.

          That second part is undercovercalico's observation of your writing style. The mention of the "truth" at the end is in direct response to your comment where you wrote:

          As I've written many times before I'm only interested in the unadulterated truth about any topic, and I will review my conclusions on anything if evidence to the contrary is presented; I have no problem saying, "Yes, you've presented a powerful argument and evidence and based on that, I was wrong."
          I think you're reading undercovercalico's posts in completely the wrong light. They weren't attacks at all. I think your defensiveness gets the better of you.

          Have a nice day, Ray.

          Calling other DKos members "weenies" is a personal insult and therefore against site rules.

          by Bob Johnson on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 10:28:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  All that for the last jab: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lostinamerica
            I think your defensiveness gets the better of you.
            People can read for themselves:
            rabble rousing diarists come and go and get hot and burn out
            That's insulting.  I write carefully.  I research the facts; I add reference information...
            one are the people who agree with everything you say and echo chamber you very frequently
            That's an insult to the intelligence of people who happen to agree with me.  Implying that they agree with me on "everything" and that they are an "echo chamber" is insulting.

            Nice try.

          •  Thanks Bob that is exactly (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            serendipityisabitch

            what I was trying to say, that all diarists aquire followings. Heck, I follow people. I think the answer is that there probably is not a good place for me in Ray's diary discussions and maybe I should just read silently.

            •  or you could keep commenting (2+ / 0-)

              and wait for Ray to request that you voluntarily stop commenting, as he just did to me.

              •  I probably (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                erratic, Sylv, serendipityisabitch

                will just "pre" honor the non given request. My idea of engagement and dialogue and Ray's are clearly very different now that I have dared to show mild disagreement and  mild critique it is clear that I have been put in a "camp" with the unsavory types and I will be accused of one of the two favorite memes that pop up with Ray. I am sure my quality of life will remain unaltered if I volunteer myself out. There is no shortage of interesting diaries to read here.

                •  The relentless attempt at purposely maligning (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lostinamerica

                  my character is going to fail.  Everybody can see the handful of people trying desperately; it's so bizarre that is actually sloppy.

                  It's very simple: I encourage you to follow the site guidelines when you comment in my diaries.  Avoid insults, innuendo about personal negative character traits, and fallacies.

                  I put a proposition forward, and if you don't agree, make your case, put forward a cogent counter-argument, and I'll be glad to engage.

                  •  Ray, would you be so kind as to suggest one or two (0+ / 0-)

                    counter-arguments on the subject of this diary that you would not see as "purposely(sic) maligning" you?

                    I would be delighted if at the end of each diary you would include those arguments to which you would be willing to respond on their merits. At this point I find it extremely difficult to imagine a not wholly positive response to which you would not reply negatively, so a list of those would be very much appreciated.

                    At least half the future I've been expecting hasn't gotten here yet. Sigh.... (Yes, there's gender bias in my name; no, I wasn't thinking about it when I signed up. My apologies.)

                    by serendipityisabitch on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 06:35:54 PM PDT

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