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View Diary: Is someone now trying to convince me that this farce was deliberate? (795 comments)

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  •  Guantanamo, and what we do in our own (6+ / 0-)

    prison system. It's ugly. It's really ugly.

    And btw, I didn't say our hands weren't cleaner. Just not a lot cleaner. And btw, I don't think we lose all our moral responsibility for what we've done as a country just because we elect a President with different ideas. When we kill and torture lots of people, I'm afraid those actions stay on the balance ledger.

    The party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland. The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party? Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 09:23:23 AM PDT

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    •  Then Putin owns Stalin (6+ / 0-)

      who's the second worst mass murderer in history behind Mao, and ahead of Hitler. The distance is even farther.

      "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

      by raptavio on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 09:27:20 AM PDT

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      •  Stalin was a hell of a lot longer ago (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, CenPhx, Johnny Q

        than George W. Bush.

        The party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland. The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party? Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 09:52:37 AM PDT

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        •  True. (8+ / 0-)

          So where's the cutoff then? Kruschev? Brezhnev? Andropov? Gorbachev? Yeltsin? Give me a year here.

          "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

          by raptavio on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 09:53:51 AM PDT

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          •  Obviously, there are no absolute rules about this. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            3goldens, jfromga, Johnny Q

            Equally obviously, it's different to say that a country has committed horrific atrocities on an international scale during a period 5-13 years ago and to say that a country did so between 60-80 years ago.

            The party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland. The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party? Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 10:07:40 AM PDT

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            •  Also it's different to (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              CenPhx, Yoshimi, Eyesbright, JNEREBEL

              say "horrific atrocities on an international scale" for what Stalin did 60-80 years ago versus what the US did 5-13 years ago since the former was two orders of magnitude worse than the latter.

              The problem is setting cutoff dates is a little self-serving for the argument (which was my point). What Bush did was atrocious and Obama set to undo much of what Bush did (ending torture, black sites, and the ill-conceived Iraq war). He didn't go for prosecuting the former regime, alas (though given the byzantine laws, a conviction would have been unlikely at best), but he did seek to right the course of the US in many important respects (not enough, according to some of our friends on the left). Putin, meanwhile, is Putin, is in charge now, and is individually responsible for his actions.

              Regardless, and here's the kicker. Even what Bush did pales in comparison to what Putin's doing.

              "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

              by raptavio on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 10:21:27 AM PDT

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