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View Diary: President Obama agrees to UN discussions on chemical weapons deal (117 comments)

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    •  I do also. (28+ / 0-)

      Cue the Republican flip flops attacking Obama for choosing diplomacy over miltary action!

      Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

      by TomP on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 08:51:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  already this morning GOP mouthpieces on MSNBC (5+ / 0-)

        aka Joe Scab, Nicole Bush Wallace, et al. were saying how weak and un-leaderlike Obama is for not being clear on how he was going to proceed to bomb the HELL out of Syria.  This kind of thing must just grind their gears, lol.

        If the plutocrats begin the program, we will end it. -- Eugene Debs.

        by livjack on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 09:23:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  also Paul Wolfowitz and Joe Lieberman (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z

          last night on Piers Morgan. Holy Joe even had the cheek to suggest that if Obama had come out for military strikes immediately after Kerry's speech two weeks ago, the public would have been totally up for it.

          Top of my wishlist of any potential outcome of the so-called Syria Crisis, is that the neocons would have a sad.

          It's looking increasingly likely I may get my wish.

        •  I'm LOL'ing right now... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z

          ...as David Gregory and Robert Gibbs, appearing on Mrs. Greenspan's MSNBC hour, are still attempting to parse the original "red line" statement, as if parsing the statement makes the least bit of difference in global diplomacy and American foreign policy.  It doesn't.

      •  He was supposed to help arm the opposition (0+ / 0-)

        years ago, but who are the opposition

      •  They are pathetic. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Matt Z

        They criticized him for not attacking when the "red line" was rumored to be crossed the first time, they criticized him for deciding to attack, and they are just starting to criticize him for not attacking after all.

        I mean, this is your typical episode of Hannity, somehow believing all this crap at once.

        I truly wonder how they sleep at night pretending to believe all these mutually exclusive things, but in the RWNJ universe, logic flows from the axiom "Obama is the devil" so I suppose it makes sense to them.

    •  Internationalizing This Is A Better Option (8+ / 0-)

      Plus, Russia has brought itself into the discussion as well and put themselves in a position where they might lose face. Maybe the principles in this civil war can eventually back off the fighting.

      I think there's a bigger picture here that affects the discussion -- the jihadis. Their rise among the rebels has likely alarmed all sides in this and I think finding a way to isolate them is in everyone's interest.

      The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

      by The Lone Apple on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 09:05:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Russia has brought itself into the discussion (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Lone Apple, lysias, i dunno

        which is exactly what it wants.  Russia wants to stop the neocon agenda and Putin has made a nice move here.   I still can't figure out if Obama was also gaming to stop the neocons or being manipulated by them, but it's better to have Russia in the mix diplomatically than to let the zealots get us bungled into a world war.

    •  Do note... (6+ / 0-)

      that the Russians didn't introduce a resolution.  The French announced the introduction of a resolution, and it's quite harsh.  Demands a full accounting of all CW work and equipment by Syria, their complete destruction, immediate and full acceptance of the resolution by the government, full compliance with the international community in bringing those accountable for the attacks to justice, and states that noncompliance will be met with "extremely serious consequences" (aka, war).  

      So obviously US/France (they're basically one team and can be expected to always be on the same page) have made their play and now it's in Russia/Syria's (likewise) court.  The al-Assads whole MAD strategy for decades has revolved around CW so I'm not so sure he'd be willing to have them outright destroyed.  His troops have been using CW for quite some time and it's well accepted that it's a very effective fear weapon against the rebels, and even if he didn't personally order the attacks I'm sure he'd be more than a little concerned about whether he'd get charged.  And I'm sure he'd also worry about how far they'd go in slating for destruction hardware associated with the attacks.  The attacks were from a M-14 rocket fired from a Soviet BM-14 launcher and from a mass-produced Syrian custom-made 330mm paired with the Iranian 333mm Falaq-2 launcher.  But of course the BM-14 can also be used for high explosive frag rounds and white phosphorus rounds, and the Falaq-2 likewise for a variety of rounds.  Would they be destroyed also?  Would all possible means of dispersal (such as aircraft) likewise be targetted?  Not that that wouldn't be a good thing given that the aircraft are increasingly being used for horrific incendiary and cluster bomb attacks, but still, Assad couldn't afford to lose them.  How far would they go with dual-use chemical restrictions?  On and on.  Even if he accepts some limitations (rather than it being purely a delay tactic), I seriously, seriously doubt he'll accept all possible restrictions.

      So of course, Russia/Syria will attempt to dilute it heavily.  They'll fight over every last word.  They'll especially fight over the "extremely serious consequences" part, not wanting any sort of trigger.  

      They may come up with a middle ground.  If they do, the US/France will be looking for any slip-up on the Syrian part, while Russia will be playing it down. The US and France would gain more political cover for an attack.  If they don't come up with a middle ground and reach a resolution, the US and France will claim that it was just a stalling tactic and he refuses to give up his chem weapons, and have approximately the same political cover that they had before the resolution idea was floated.

      Obama will push forth on congressional approval, likely seeking an authorization for force if and only if the UN talks fail or if Assad violates the resolution.  The seemingly watered down resolution would probably get enough support to pass.  It would then be held up in either of the above two scenarios as an additional right to carry out strikes.

      At least, that's my take on it all.  Let's see what Obama says this evening.

      Já þýðir já. Nei þýðir nei. Hvað er svona erfitt við það?

      by Rei on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 09:12:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The last thing we need is an AUMF (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        greenbastard, lysias, Neon Mama

        because that is exactly what the folks who want war with Iran want - another excuse to get another war in the middle east.

        •  Just because you have it doesn't mean you're going (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nocynicism, dpinzow

          to use it.

          So far:

          Congress has been backed into a corner where they MUST do their job.

          Each day they delay, PBO ties us closer to the UN and our 'enemies.'  Including France.

          Which could lead to a ban on the export of military equipment, and treaties to destroy nuclear weapons.

          Which castrates the death merchants.

          The best the GOP can hope for is being allowed to sink into obscurity.  Which the web makes impossible.

          This is political theater.  And a masterwork of strategic planning.

          Joy shared is doubled. Pain shared is halved. Spider Robinson

          by nolagrl on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 09:38:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Straight to the UN. (0+ / 0-)

      Bolton's head is exploding......

      Joy shared is doubled. Pain shared is halved. Spider Robinson

      by nolagrl on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 09:47:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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