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View Diary: As we wait for Colorado recall results, here's some trivia (95 comments)

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  •  Oh good. Nothing like a preemptive conspiracy (0+ / 0-)

    theory to really get the ball rolling.

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 11:50:18 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Not really. It was part of the challenges before (6+ / 0-)

      the Secretary of State's office, IIRC, but they decided to allow the recall elections to go forward anyway.  Here's one link from DKos, but there are plenty more on the web: http://www.dailykos.com/...

      •  You mean the part that was thrown out by a court (0+ / 0-)

        of law?

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 11:55:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Secretary of State Gessler (R) has been screaming (6+ / 0-)

          about vote fraud since before he was elected, but he's uncovered exactly zero fraudulent votes.  He's also had his issues with trying to throw people off the voting roles because of their last names only to find out that they're valid voters.  He's an amateur compared to some of the Republicans who have been ruining elections around the country, but he's trying hard.

          Petitions gathered and signatures verified (including that of a woman who's been dead for two years) and that's not the only suspect signature and yet the SOS certifies that the election should proceed.  http://coloradopols.com/....  That's from July 24th, btw, so that's relatively late in this process.

          Do you have a link to where a court dealt with this?

          •  Sure (0+ / 0-)

            Legal challenge rejected.

            There were over twice as many signatures than was necessary for the recall of Morse to proceed.

            There was no credible objection to the recall moving forward, to try and blame it on 'conspiracy' is absurdity.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 12:23:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You're the only one who mentioned "conspiracy" (4+ / 0-)

              of the commenters in this thread.  The rest of us were just complaining of the invalid signatures not being investigated or given credence the way they would if this were a recall of a Republican.  Gessler is nothing if not a partisan hack.

              •  Making a factless assertion that a recall process (0+ / 0-)

                that was followed, legally; lacks credibility because of unproven nefarious actions is a conspiracy theory.

                "Gessler is nothing if not a partisan hack"
                And even Morse doesn't question that their was enough signatures for the recall.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 03:19:26 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No - the woman named in the article I cited (0+ / 0-)

                  is definitely not alive to have signed the recall.  That has been proven, though the Secretary of State chose to accept the dead woman's signature.  How you can say that she's proven to have legitimately signed this petition is just willful stupidity or ignorance.  She's been dead two years.  There were others who claimed that their signatures were fraudulently placed on the petitions.  That the signatures weren't challenged in court doesn't suddenly make them legal or legitimate. It just means Morse and Giron thought it more important to put the subject up to the voters rather than fight legal fights forever.

            •  BTW, the article you linked to was solely about (5+ / 0-)

              the language of the recall petitions not meeting the state Constitutional requirements.  The judge felt that the language substantially met the requirements and determined that any differences were not worth invalidating the whole recall.  

              What I was referring to never did get challenged in court - the fact that a number of signatures should have been invalidated but they were upheld by the SOS (again, who has been a warrior against vote fraud when it serves his partisan interest) despite proof that they weren't legitimate.  Both Morse and Giron chose not to challenge them in court so their campaigns also decided to go on with the elections as the next step.

              There may or may not have been enough valid signatures - the SOS ruled there were, and since the campaigns didn't challenge the signatures, we'll never know.  I'm hopeful that the Senators will retain their seats despite cheating by the recall committees.

              Thanks for the link - it helped me to remember what happened and that I remembered it correctly.

      •  True - it's been well documented and it's still (6+ / 0-)

        going on. Some Independence Institute yahoo who lives in Boulder - ironies of ironies - went to Colorado Springs and cast a blank recall ballot to try to prove fraud is going on - the Gov called him out and said unless he plans to move to Colorado Springs, he'll be charged with a felony. Voters can same day register from another city, if in fact they are going to move and live in a city in Colorado. This is for legitimate folks who are actually moving - and the number of those who are using this as a loop hole to commit fraud is nil. But the GOP mantra has been "don't let the facts get in the way of a good voter 'fraud' story."

    •  Now Frank, you no better than that. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Glen The Plumber, LilithGardener
      •  I'm afraid I don't. (0+ / 0-)

        Neither did the SOS nor the courts nor even Morse.
        Hence the recall election.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 12:24:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I can't tip this. I don't think he knows better (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3rdOption, We Shall Overcome

        than that.

        •  Neither does Morse. (0+ / 0-)

          But, what the hell, you've convinced me.......IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!!!!

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 03:20:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Frank, how do you square your very, very (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Glen The Plumber, Larsstephens

            concerned worries that innocent Americans will lose their rights if Morse isn't recalled with your lack of concern for innocent Americans who will lose their rights if Morse is recalled? Of course, I'm speaking of reproductive rights, the right to vote, etc.?

            •  I never claimed that Americans will lose their (0+ / 0-)

              rights if Morse isn't recalled.

              "Of course, I'm speaking of reproductive rights, the right to vote, etc.?"
              If those things are important to you, then quit losing voters by trying to ban objects from innocent people.

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Tue Sep 10, 2013 at 08:41:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Dems are still in the majority and good legislatio (0+ / 0-)

                was passed - a win-win.

                You on the other hand helped bring a GOPer in who wants to roll back reproductive rights and voting rights.

                What about those innocent Americans, Frank? Don't those rights count?

              •  One of the measures passed was universal (0+ / 0-)

                background checks.  That's to ensure that innocent people are cleared, and that people who shouldn't have guns don't get them.  It's not banning objects from innocent people, unless you're talking magazine size, and then that's just a matter of how you define things - it's not banning magazines - people can still get magazines for their guns - as many as they want.  They just can't buy them with more than 15 rounds.  And I believe existing ones were grandfathered in.

                Colorado Democrats stood up and said we're going to have some limits put onto those who shouldn't have guns and those who want to fire indiscriminately with their weapons like Holmes tried in the Aurora theater.  Our Reps and Senators didn't ban either thing from law-abiding people.

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